Posted by
Kyria Abrahams
• 03.05.12 11:00 am


Instagram: teyreyk

 

Don’t let what your dad says about your jaundiced, estranged uncle Charlie fool you: AA is for morons.

According to your family, the AA program saved Uncle Charlie’s life. It did! Then it turned him into God-fearing, powerless retard who sits in a church basement and spews unscientific bullshit like “Everything happens for a reason”; “I believe the Big Book was inspired by God”; and my favorite: “My disease has been doing pushups.”

Yes, pushups. No, I didn’t make that up. Most people are aware that AA believes that alcoholism a “disease.” But did you know they also believe it’s a disease with a gym membership? I’ll bet AIDS doesn’t do pushups. I’ll bet AIDS takes up the last eliptical machine and then just stands on it for an hour while reading Maxim. But alcoholism? That guy has a personal trainer.

Before I go any further, I need to say that I’m not referring to the (sadly rare) Agnostic AA meetings, which, in my experience, consisted of a bunch of intellectual atheists meeting to share tips on not ruining their lives with Jagermeister. I’m talking about real, hardcore, court-mandated Alcoholics Anonymous, which is directly based on a Christian movement from the 1920’s called The Oxford Group.

Here’s a quote from the founder of The Oxford Group: Frank Buchman: “I thank heaven for a man like Adolf Hitler, who built a front-line defense against the anti-Christ of communism.”

Well, hindsight is 20/20, I guess. Unless you’re a Jew who had their eyeglasses taken away.

As follows is actual stupid shit I heard people regularly say in AA meetings:

“My disease wants me dead.”

“Alcoholism is an allergy. I am allergic to alcohol, this is why I crave more.”

“Alcoholism is a progressive disease. Even when you’re not drinking, it’s getting stronger.”

“If I were to start drinking today, I’d immediately be twice as bad as I was when I left off.”

“If even one drop of alcohol were to enter my system, I just know I’d end up in the gutter.”

“To drink is to die.”

All these things and more were said loudly and often. Yet no one ever stood up and said: “Woah there, buddy, you’re talkin’ crazyperson crazytalk! Diseases don’t stay latent and yet get stronger! And while we’re on the subject, that’s kinda totally NOT the definition of an allergy.”

Instead, the members of AA say: “That’s right, girlfriend! Allergies make you want more of what you’re allergic to! Not dumb at all. See you next Tuesday!”

The crux of AA’s stupidity is this: They believe that alcoholics possess a gene or some shit that cause them to uncontrollably crave alcohol (ie: have a not-allergy to it). Once an alcoholic has even the tiniest drop of alcohol, it becomes physically impossible for him to stop drinking. Because of, you know. The allergy. I guess.

This retarded and scientifically unproven fact was made up by someone named “Dr. William Silkworth” who pulled it out of his hairy ass sometime in the early 1930s. It’s called “the phenomenon of craving.” Did I mention his name was Dr. Silkworth and he was born in fucking 1873? Oh, well, there’s that.

Here’s a snippet he wrote in the AA Big Book in the opening chapter called “The Doctor’s Opinion”:

“I have had many men who had, for example, worked a period of months on some problem or business deal which was to be settled on a certain date, favorably to them. They took a drink a day or so prior to the date, and then the phenomenon of craving at once became paramount to all other interests so that the important appointment was not met. These men were not drinking to escape; they were drinking to overcome a craving beyond their mental control.”

Yeah. Cool story, bro.

People in AA currently base their entire mode of living on bunk science from the 1930s. The 1930s. Back when they hospitalized epileptics in sanitariums because they had the devil in ’em. Back when other doctor’s “opinions” included ideas such as ‘novocaine is for faggots and ‘night air causes women to act uppity’.

To the rest of us, this “phenomenon” is known as “a lack of self-control.” That’s why Overeaters Anonymous doesn’t tell people to stop eating entirely, but instead teaches people how to moderate. Because we are adults. Because we can do shit like that if we want to.

Both groups use the 12-steps, but OA says you can moderate and AA says you absolutely can’t. Is that fucking WEIRD to anyone else?

At a meeting once in Queens, I heard someone who had been sober for seven years say the following: “I had a candy at the company Christmas party. I didn’t know it was filled with liquor. I immediately spit it out, but now I am going to start counting days again.”

UNCLEAN! UNCLEAN! Liquor and milk chocolate! After the meeting, people came up to this woman and congratulated her on her honesty and welcomed her “back.” How I didn’t show up later that night with a shotgun and two bullets, I’ll never know.


Instagram: dylanroa

Getting sober is not a negative thing. What IS a negative thing, however, is the bullshit idea that 1/4 teaspoon of brandy at the Christmas party means you “slipped” and have to start over at day one. I can’t think of anything less healthy or more illogical than throwing away seven years of sobriety on a piece of candy. What are you, an anorexic teenager? Get your shit together, you fucking asshole.

Also awesome: At the end of every AA meeting, the members hold hands and say a prayer of some sort. Usually the Lord’s Prayer. But it’s not to God, unless you WANT it to be. Instead, they pray to a higher power, as if saying “higher power” is somehow less idiotic and offensive than “Judeo-Christian God.” Because the program isn’t religious, it’s SPIRITUAL. Right? Wrong. You’re still a harmful cult, you just happen to have a handy excuse—and it’s a dumb one.

But—you say—but AA helped your uncle stop shitting his pants. But AA saved your friend’s life! But AA saved YOUR life! You used to be a drunk but now you’re just a douche.

How is getting sober harmful, you ask?

It isn’t! But the bottom line is that AA isn’t ABOUT getting sober. AA is about going to AA. That’s why they slyly coined the term “dry drunk.” A dry drunk is a person who doesn’t drink but doesn’t go to AA, either.

Dry drunks are naughty and sad and delusional. They’re not “sober”. What, you think just because you stopped getting trashed on vodka and Red Bull at 10 am and got a job to support yourself you can call yourself sober? No way, hermano. You didn’t do shit. You’re just dry.

Not culty at ALL, right? Sounds totally legit to me! Great way to get sober! Let’s court mandate this shit!

In my mind (where I am 100% correct) if you tell another human being (especially one with a drinking problem) that they are powerless, you’re a fucking menace to society. If you tell someone to “pray” instead of to “act,” you’re a piece of shit who should be kicked in the vaginaballs without mercy. If you tell someone who worked their ass off that a “Higher Power” is keeping them sober and they themselves did nothing, you’re a rude asshole.

The truth is, AA doesn’t get you sober. STOPPING DRINKING gets you sober. And—as much as this sucks—you have to do that all by yourself. Even if you do it in a room full of supportive alcoholics, you still have to do it yourself. You can also do it in Moderation Management, or SMART, or with a therapist, or by switching to weed. Whatever works for you.

The problem is that AA refuses to admit that AA doesn’t work for everyone. And that’s extremely harmful. Because people who realize that AA is bullshit will continue drinking. They might even drink themselves dead, because they would rather die than hang out with a bunch of sober Jesus freaks for the rest of their life. They are not told of any alternative. They are not helped to moderate. They are simply told: “To drink is to die.”

They disappear, which leaves the remaining cult members with the impression that AA keeps people sober, when, in fact, AA is just a club for people who were going to get sober anyway.

It’s not that AA stops people from drinking, it’s that no one who hangs out in AA drinks.

As soon as I stopped going to AA, I stopped drinking, mainly because I got away from the psychopaths who go to AA. Those people were ruining my life and I needed to get drunk just to cope with them. When I was in AA, I couldn’t stop getting shitfaced. Now that I want no longer attend AA, I can get drunk whenever I want to. But I don’t.

Sadly, instead of admitting that a person can learn to drink (trust me, I had a drinking problem), AA members will claim that I must not have been a REAL alcoholic after all. Fancy footwork, AA. Way to hold back progress and keep people from getting sober. They are so clearly a cult they might as well be drinking cyanide-laced Flavor Aid out of a tennis shoe in Jonestown.

How about this? How about instead of saying AA is the only way to get sober (when studies prove the opposite—getting sober in AA has the same success rate as getting sober on your own), you instead tell people they are powerful and awesome, that they can stop drinking if they want to. What about telling people they can do anything they put their mind to? What about being a positive influence instead of a negative one?

No? Not working for ya? Hitler had some good ideas?

I don’t know what the people who claimed to be my friends in AA think about me now (funny, they stopped calling all of a sudden!) but I certainly heard the way they talked about OTHER people who had stopped coming to meetings. With a snotty ‘tsk’ of the lips and a condescending “She says she’s not drinking, but really, who knows…” or, “She says she’s trying to [eye roll] MODERATE her drinking!”

To that I say: Fuck you. Fuck you, you cunty cult fucks. Suck the delicious whiskey from my shit-filled asshole. To drink is to die, but to drink my fecal matter is to get cholera. Go suck Jim Beam’s dick, you self-righteous, boring-ass, hypocritical, fundamentalist fucks. AA is for morons.

 

—KYRIA ABRAHAMS

 


Instagram: riebron12


Comments
  1. Anonymous says:

    It’s difficult to enumerate the factual errors in this “article”, but I’ll do my best.

    AA is not the only body that considers alcoholism a disease. The American Medical Association does. http://jama.ama-assn.org/content/268/8/1012.abstract

    But, y’know, I’m sure they’re just a bunch of cultist morons and Kyria Abrahams (a hipster blogger who just-so-happened-to-have-been-brought-up-in-a-Jehova’s-Witness-cult) is not just a reactionary who has a few personal anger issues to work through.

    How could we possibly take seriously a woman who claims that it is other people’s fault that she drank. How does she even take herself seriously?

    Lastly, I just have to address this, since, after all, it’s a question: “How about instead of saying AA is the only way to get sober (when studies prove the opposite—getting sober in AA has the same success rate as getting sober on your own), you instead tell people they are powerful and awesome, that they can stop drinking if they want to.”

    The answer is simple, Kyria, because for an alcoholic, it doesn’t work.

    Look, you’ve got your definitions all fucked up. An alcoholic is somebody who CANNOT stop drinking. You are able to stop drinking, right? So, you’re not an alcoholic. This is a little bit like if I forced my ten year-old nephew to sit at his Grandma’s bridge game every night. He’d go nuts! It’s the wrong fucking place for him to be.

    So, quit shitting on something you don’t get, don’t understand and WASN’T INTENDED FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND.

  2. Mikhael says:

    Very interesting. Would like to hear what Arfin has to say about this.

  3. damon says:

    Why can’t we all just agree to disagree? AA is not for everyone, but those who like it seem to, well, really like it. The only reason I can see to get this upset is if you were mandated by the courts to go to AA and you are being a giant pussy about it. Whose fault is that? Not AA’s, dumbass. They didn’t make you drink a bunch of wine coolers and piss yourself in the alley….

  4. Kyria says:

    Anonymous, you sound exactly like every brainwashed AA member I’ve ever met. I hope you enjoy sharing about how angry this post made you at your meeting tonight. You’re welcome. I gave you something to talk about at fellowship.

  5. Anonymous says:

    ::rolls eyes::

  6. Dr. Bob's Balls says:

    Let me guess: Court mandated to 30 meetings for DUI? Went to 10 and filled in the rest of the signatures on the card yourself? Now an expert on all this spiritual and psychological? About 23 years old? Stick to blogging about Kreayshawn.

  7. AAAAAAAAAAA says:

    “So, quit shitting on something you don’t get, don’t understand and WASN’T INTENDED FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND.”

    Really great argument. Outstanding. Needs more caps and ad-hominems though.

  8. raymes says:

    one crutch for another = AA.

  9. Zippy says:

    It would be fun to walk in on an AA meeting and say “Alcoholics Anonymous? I thought this was Ass Attackers!”

  10. Nathan says:

    As someone who cannot stop drinking, not even for one second, not even to finish this sentence, I must say that Kyria Abrahams is a 23 year old non-alcoholic hipster. And she needs help.

  11. d says:

    I quit drinking for almost a year starting summer 2007.

    About 6 months later I ended up on a shrink’s couch talking about anger. I’d had falling outs with significant friends. My movie intake went up. There were simply many nights I totally hated myself, and I no longer had booze for relief. Maybe everyone experiences self-hatred. It was really grinding me.

    I met and started dating someone who went to AA. I just thought she was hot, but identifying with things she said, even as I had been away from booze for months, got me interested in the program. I got a sponsor and worked the steps, and life is better. I still have awful problems, but those have little to do with AA or even booze. Like, my career prospects need help. It’s coming along. Different story.

    Not long before meeting that girl I read Eckhart Tolle’s book and watched his conversations with Oprah. I really dug it, and I’m indifferent to Oprah. What he writes about ego has much in common with AA’s ideas about self. He definitely primed me for the program. I’d still recommend him to anyone, it’s totally accessible.

    Anyway abstinence didn’t work for me. Even after 6 months with that shrink, the ideas and atmosphere of a good meeting were more compelling. And when I say good meeting I mean a meeting focused on the big book, sharing about what’s actually working. Sometimes meetings are a total beatdown of self-absorbed complaining.

    Last thing. I feel most comfortable with AA because it requires no one to stay. You’re free to try anything else (moderation, weed, Buddhism, Polar Bear Club)…you don’t have to give your contact info or pay money. If you hear from anyone after bailing, tell them to fuck off if you want – but if they’re practicing AA’s ideas, the phone call is a genuine inquiry about how things are going for you.

    I probably sound like the earnest dicks she heard at meetings…

  12. Anonymous says:

    Resentment is the #1 offender Kyria, we welcome you back with open arms.

  13. Kyria says:

    As illustrated by the comments above, it’s very easy to feel like you’re going crazy in AA. The brainwashing and indoctrination is very strong. The personal experiences about how they “tried other ways, but failed” might even have you believing that the same thing will happen to you, too, if you dare to stay sober on your own, without the help of God (GASP!).

    If nothing else, I hope to serve as an example of someone whose life got better after leaving AA, not worse.

    AA members will tell you that you’ll end up in the gutter if you leave. They are lying. You control your own life. Don’t let people in AA fuck with your mind. You have the power to do anything you want. Do it!

    (p.s. If you think a support group would be helpful to you, I highly recommend Agnostic AA in New York. It’s everything regular AA pretends to be, except they are the real deal.)

  14. Actually... says:

    “AA members will tell you that you’ll end up in the gutter if you leave.”

    There are a lot of morons and self-styled Gurus in AA, Kyria, and it sounds like you met your share. As have I. AA has no governing body and a lot of these people get more than there fair share of Soapbox-time and no one can tell them to shut up. They spew a lot of shit and, unfortunately, drive some people away.

    But the truth is that the literature in AA says…

    “We do not like to pronounce any individual as alcoholic, but you can quickly diagnose yourself. Step over to the nearest barroom and try some controlled drinking. Try to drink and stop abruptly. Try it more than once. It will not take long for you to decide, if you are honest with yourself about it.”

    There you have it: If you can control your drinking — or be happy not controlling it — have at it. Period.

    It sounds like you are confusing the people you met with the voluntary and suggested program of recovery.

    If you, or anyone else, would like to read a more balanced critique of AA, see below…

    http://theapprovalholic.wordpress.com/2011/11/19/alcoholics-anonymous-program-in-crisis-2/

    Granted, it doesn’t have as hysterical and polarizing a headline as your piece, but it may be worth a read nonetheless.

  15. Sharky says:

    AA is like any organization that opens its doors to everyone under the sun: It’s got its yahoos, it’s got its know-it-alls, it’s got its fascists, it’s got its parasites. They’re not difficult to spot. But AA also has a lot of intelligent, discerning, articulate, hilarious people who genuinely care for one another and understand, like no other group of people can, what it’s like to be rendered completely powerless when booze hits the blood.

    Also, while I’m here, I’ve never understood why people get so angry about AA’s existence. It helps people and you can stop going whenever you want, what’s the problem?

  16. Mark says:

    For fuck’s sake. How terrible is this? Why would you take your time to shit on something that helps someone and harms no one. It’s certainly not the only way to stop drinking but it is an accessible one for people that need some kind of guidance. It’s such a personal thing and I think you got more than halfway through this and realized that you were being an asshole but had already put too much time into it to actually fucking get in touch with anything besides your fucking ego. It says a lot about you as a person and as a shit writer that you can’t express yourself without taking a diarrhea all over it. So weak.

  17. Mamie Kuku says:

    What a bunch of hooey, first of all. Not the article, but that you are “powerless” over alcohol. Get a grip. Stop pretending it’s a disease that you just can’t control. The only way you can say you can’t control your drinking is if your arm is somehow automatically wired, by some strange unseen contraption, to raise a glass or a bottle or a chalice or a shoe to your mouth and force the evil elixir down your throat. Sounds like people are way to eager to hand over the marionette’s strings to an unseen entity. Ugggh.

    P.S. For the record, this article is hilarious.

  18. MXWL says:

    if you’ve ever been an addict then you know. If you haven’t, then you don’t.

  19. unclaimed smegma says:

    People say that AA is substituting one crutch for another, and they’re right. Except that one crutch will kill you (which one? here’s a hint, it’s not the one that helps you stop drinking).

  20. Pogi says:

    What I want to know is why is theres only one AA. Why cant there be other options? Why the exclusivity and secrecy. If its a scientific method then Psychiatrists or Psychologists should adopt its teachings thereby making it less culty and more accessible. amirite?

  21. You Pious Brat says:

    Holy Hell….
    I seriously have suspicions that Raymi the Minx wrote this. It smacks of her clever use of the english vocabulary and strong reporting skills (which have been given a platform here before – thanks for that, barf). So, I am taking a year “clean” at NA in a month or so and you know what, I think I know a little bit about you Kyria…
    I’m guessing you are at the very most 29. That you had an upper middle class up bringing and have had as many funky hair cuts as a-ha moments, where everything was going really awesome for you and you thought you found your special place that you fit in NEEEEWWW YORK.
    Your opinion is stupid, shitty and ignorant. You have the investigatory reporting skills of a slug. You fail to mention that there is no reward, no status claimed, nothing to qualify all this crazy impending craziness behind their cult like behaviour, other than the “clean time” that people claim and they aren’t pissing in a cup every day for your ass so it’s based on faith. Faith that people are telling the truth…and faith that if they are their experiences might help someone else out.
    I know NA is different, and I think that is a little ridiculous because from what I understand it mostly does all relate to addictive behaviours, but you know what? Fuck you. That shit does get stronger and maladapt against what you throw at it so it can fuck your shit up. I think your article is a good example of that. You seem completely confident in having a piece of your writing published that makes you sound like an impulsive, ignorant, under educated brat with very little self awareness or consideration for others. It isn’t even good snark writing. Girl, you need to check yourself because in the absence of getting your drink on you have developed a serious case of the stupid as fucks and annoying as hells. I think your particular strain has knocked AIDS off of the elliptical and is monopolizing the free-weights as well.
    Also, you might want to visit the web representation of the Agnostic version you mentioned of that 12 step fellowship that you so despise. They have eliminated the structured religious element of the program from their meetings and practice but in no way denounce it or exclude those that do. Not to shit on your super rad article though.
    PS – you really do sound like the epitome of a dry drunk, $5 says you constantly think you might be pregnant, or have gotten someone pregnant – are always fluctuating between, OMG I’m making so much money – eeep I’m broke, and won’t shut the fuck up about your never ending interfamilial drama, even though you barely speak to them. Good lookin’ out on fulfilling a stereotype through print though, these days it usually takes a visual image.
    Pffft.

  22. Tard Patrol says:

    ^^^ Guess you never heard of Google. She’s a published author. Lemme guess—you’re not.

  23. You Pious Brat says:

    Yeah, I clicked the link afterwards.
    Bet I am still right about tons of the above shit. No, I am not. But we live in a time where Paris Hilton and Snooki are “published authors” so you can take that high horse and ride it right on over to the doesn’t mean shit area of the quality control corral.

  24. You Pious Brat says:

    Yeah, I clicked the link afterwards.
    Bet I am still right about tons of the above shit. No, I am not a published author. But we live in a time where Paris Hilton and Snooki are “published authors” so you can take that high horse and ride it right on over to the doesn’t mean shit area of the quality control corral.

  25. busted says:

    Anyone else think “Kyria” sounds suspiciously similar to a sexually transmitted disease or something?

  26. Tard Patrol says:

    @ You Pious Brat

    You aren’t right about anything, you can’t write for shit, and obviously you’re an AA zombie group-joining clone with zero sense of self.

  27. Sniffy says:

    I have a friend who was sober for 7 years and during those 7 years was the biggest prick/asshole you ever met. Then, he started drinking again but not like an asshole and went from Metallica circa 1989 to Metallica circa 2001.

  28. CB says:

    Ive never had a drink on a day when I went to a meeting . I’ve been drinking too much for the better part of 25 yrs . AA is good for people that want to stop drinking and can’t on their own.

  29. bollocktothis says:

    got legless at a street party on sunday and felt decidely iffy yesterday and was thinking about giving the beer a miss again this afternoon, i’m off to get some now………thanks for the inspiration

  30. HOMEsick says:

    lets just get drunk and watch fight club.

  31. Anonymous says:

    I hope you all drink yourselves to death you fucking losers. Have fun sucking each others cocks in your “Wahh, I can’t control myself” meetings.

  32. Nathan says:

    If you think AA doesn’t cause harm you are delusional.

  33. Ryna says:

    Who cares if AA is bullshit. It gets people to stop drinking. What a waste of a comment.

  34. Papa Murph says:

    @ You Pious Brat, “poor investigative reporting skills” has nothing to do with it. This piece is not meant to be investigative journalism.

  35. Shit4Brains says:

    Oh, come now, at this point it’s obvious the “Pious Brat” guy is a hive-mind drunk who’s butt-hurt about the article.

  36. Tool says:

    This article basically says that the author is angry that weak people exist. This is not something to get angry about.

    The comments, then, are written by people who are angry that someone is angry that there are weak people out there. Don’t make no sense no how.

  37. You Pious Brat(s) says:

    Well, then. Yeah, after browsing her online presence I am confidently correct about a few of my assumptions. I didn’t say I could write worth shit, I said she couldn’t (more specifically, didn’t, in this article).It might not have been intended investigative journalism, but eluding that to the presence of fact based research by cherry picking histories and the use of salacious Hilter references is…um, stupid. Especially when by doing so the attempted affect is to discredit personal experience or belief. That is the same fool proof logic adolescent punk rockers use to defend their musical preferences as a political ideology…A+++.The fuck?
    As far as hive-mentality and zombie-group joining? Yeah man, people who get shit faced, do shitty drugs (I’m sorry but this centuries street drugs are shite) and defend their uncontrollable behaviour and lack of ability to control impulse for escapism, are so fucking rare these days. Straight up folks, get hammered…party…puke on things, develop addictions to prescription medication…’cause when you do so you are really UNIQUE and INDIVIDUAL. Very few people ever do these things, you really are against the grain.
    And Tool it’s not weak to look for help and then use it.In fact in the realm of addiction it takes a fair amount of strength to do so. Best of luck to you all, really.

  38. bitter says:

    So?

  39. bollocktothis says:

    the beer was good and i’m looking forward to some more

  40. im in AA says:

    what a huge whiny shit of a life i have. i couldn’t quit drinking on my own. like all weak people, i needed to be surrounded by others. i needed their support. their guidance. their approval. i was too weak to do it myself. do you hear me? too weak.

  41. Dr.Drew says:

    Stanhope has been going off on rehab lately. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXOmhvdS0Tk

  42. pony says:

    Who are the people on this website? Making fun of me is great, and a lot of fun, because I’m a moron and deserve it, but what is the rage this article has inspired? Seriously, this article is at least half-way legit (and inspiring! ”you’re in control!” YAH). Who are all these AA creeps coming out of the woodwork? Have they been on this site the whole time, or are they kind of mormon-y in that they always show up when you’re talking about them

    Also I can’t help myself I can’t stop you don’t know what its like you’re a liar and you can’t understand

  43. simon says:

    Where-ever someone questions the holy AA tenets, a clip-running AA-zealot will magically appear to sloganitize the non-believers. As seen above, the arguments range from “so what if studies show it doesn’t work-it worked for me (my uncle/cousin/mommy/teacher, etc) and that’s all the proof I need”, to “if you quit drinking on your own, it means you were not powerless and thus not a ‘true alcoholic'”. You see, AA’rs are comfortable ignoring studies/science when it comes to AA’s “success rate” but if you explain how you just decided to quit drinking-you are deluded: only AA’ers know what a “true alcoholic” is. If this type of non-sensical crazy-making slogan-driven logic appeals to you, then AA is for you. PS. I am a clip-running ant-AA zealot who is (gasp!) angry at initially being shoved into AA even though I knew it was religious quackery. Golly, guess I am either “white-knuckling it” as a true alcoholic without the precious anointment of God’s (er, ah, a doorknob’s) disease-easing love, or my former 20 years of consuming nearly a quart of vodka/night doesn’t qualify me as an “alcoholic”.

  44. givegavinatvshow says:

    this is the shittiest article i’ve read on this site.

    off to takimag

  45. Nate says:

    Thank you for your article. As an AA member I love to read stuff that holds AA up to ridicule. It keeps out the riff-raff. The last thing AA needs is to be any more popular than it already is. Thank you again. : )))

  46. CC says:

    KYRIA ABRAHAMS-your funny! i empathise with your hard luck story. we all find our own path. may best to you.

  47. Take it from someone who has been to hundreds of meetings and has seen just about every messed up thing that I could see over the years in AA- yes, i’m sober, and yes, I often hate AA. They are the same assholes I partied with before sobriety–thieves, con artists, players, liars, the list goes on. I have made good friends there, but a lot of enemies, too—I think u are very funny, Kyria—-just don’t let them give u an excuse to harm yourself—u have a great voice.

  48. David says:

    To Kyria

    I only hope whatever route or method you choose for your own sobriety, works, that it provides the tool you need  to stay sober and provides you with a platform and opportunity for you to make better decisions about YOUR life.  

    I hope you find the happy life YOU choose.

    For me, alcoholism is an illness, I squandered 27 years of my life making the wrong sections in relation to drug and alcohol.  The insanity in my life was very apparent for all but me! My irresponsible decisions had damaging consequences for myself and sadly my children.  What did I give a shit! As long as I could get on another bender? I could avoid the consequences of my choices! Until…. I know longer could..  And became desperate….  I didn’t believe I could stop drinking….. Ever…. I was ill! Or would you suggest I was at this stage I was emotionally well balanced and indeed very well?

    8 years later…. I am living a dream sober life… I share love, respect and joy with my family.  I make wise decisions (some times) the biggest one to commit all my efforts to do WHATEVER I have to do to stay clean and sober…..

    I belong to http://www.smartrecovery.org and AA.  I sort professional therapy  to help me resolve other issues.  I took up creative hobbies to support my development, sort through book advice on nutritional requirements, read extensively about dopamine and serotonin imbalances in addicts ( read the craving brain by dr Ronald Ruden )!

    I did all this while going to AA meetings at least 3 times a week.

    Oh did I mention? I’m an atheist, not a passive atheist, an atheist who believes church and state should be completely apart, religious schools should be closed and the word god should be banished from ANY recovery program! I personally decline reading AA material that has any god rhetoric nor participate in any prayer.  I have however learnt to meditate 

    I have recently proposed agnostic meetings but lack of interest has dropped that for now. 

    So why does an ardent atheist go to AA to support my program for staying sober? Because the only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking!  I like being around groups of people who are committed to their own recovery, I like hearing what they do as they share their experience strength and hope on living a sober life.  I share my own, including my frustration at so much god bollox! 

    Whatever works for you is right for you…. That’s brilliant! To viciously attack program’s that provides templates for other to successfully get and stay sober I would suggest is a reflection on your fragile state rather than the groups you so aggressively abuse.

    Stay sober! 

  49. To character assassinate me and infer that I am fragile is not very “sober” behavior, is it? You pretty much undid everything you said with that one sentence.

    Sorry you’re in a cult. Stay sober anyway!

  50. Also, gotta love the smug condescension of your first sentence. Seriously, David, you “only hope” my life is together? Who do you think you are? Running around the internet judging other people because they aren’t in AA must be time consuming for you. Honestly, the goddamn hubris on you AA people is astounding to me. I point out that you’re in a cult (sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but people ALWAYS like their cults and ALWAYS think they help them. That’s why you stay in it. Surprise!), so now you have to infer that I must not have my life together. Jesus, you really do have to shove AA down everyone’s throats, don’t you? You guys are more condescending than Jehovah’s Witnesses. I don’t know how that’s possible, but it’s true.

  51. J Colbert says:

    ……Three years of total abstinance, & yes I do still miss having a good scotch or glass of wine or a beer socially., All three have
    been part of my life for over forty years. Sometimes I DO feel perhaps a little TOO self righteous amongst social drinking
    friends. A G.B. Shaw quotation which I’ve always thought apt is …”An alcoholic is someone you don’t like who
    drinks as much as yourself.”
    There’s a lot of sense in these comments.
    …..Napoleon

  52. Mas says:

    Well, I think and believe that Kyria is not only FUCKING AWESOME but DEAD ON!! I myself have been in AA for 13 years and have seen every type of brainwashed and brain dead asshole spew their fucktard insanity. I have no sympathy for parrots. One fucking loser old timer grabs his rickety old dick and farts out some insane verbarge and the next minute 50 newcomers are building a shrine in his likeness. It’s just pure lost soul insanity is what it is. So many dysfucktional lost shit birds flock to AA with no sense of who they are, no sense of direction, no common fucking sense, no idea how to behave or relate to he human race and they are immediately sucked in to hardline bullshit preaching and autocratic cult like sayings of AA. AA is a SOCIAL FUCKING CLUB!!! It’s not about GROWING UP!! IT’S ABOUT WHO’S DICK YOUR SUCKING SO YOU CAN BE CALLED ON IN MEETINGS!! SO YOU CAN BE ACCEPTED. Most pple in AA have no fucking clue what EMOTIONAL SOBRIETY even means. I don’t claim to have to the greatest personality. I do not claim to be the worlds most likeable person.. BUT I KNOW A FUCKING WACKED OUT IDIOT WHEN I SEE ON AND AA IS FULL OF THEM!! I have heard alot of these so called spritual giants talk so eloquently as bird of heavan were leaping from their tongue .. yea as if GUMMY BEARS AND RAINBOWS OF RECOVERY WERE SHOOTING FROM THEIR ASS!! Then walk out in to the parking lot and BEAT THE FUCK OUT OF SOMEONE THAT PISSED THEM OFF!! ORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR, turn right around after sharing and try to slip their cock up some new comers twat!! The place is fucking RIDDLED with sexual predators, sociopaths, narcissist, trouble makers and pedophiles!!! FUCK AA!!! If you can find a GOOD meeting that hasnt been contaminated with TOXIC FUCKS then you are doing better than most of us that have been around awhile. YOU ROCK KYRIA!! KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK AND FUCK ALL THESE LAME BRAIN IDIOTS WHO DO “NOT” HAVE THE EXPERIENCE TO BACK UP THE PETTY BULLSHIT THEY THROW YOUR WAY!!

  53. Anonymous says:

    Dear street carnage, nice boner in your throat! Hope you aren’t the type of addict that sucks dick for crack

  54. Mas, I only just read your comment this morning but I laughed heartily. So true. It’s something only people who are in AA can see. The “Old Timer” worship is the creepiest, especially considering how horrible these old men used to be. Dude used to run drugs and beat his wife and now he’s a god because he finally decided to be a normal human being instead of a piece of shit. Well, congratulations on finally getting a job and not raping your kids any more, Gramps. You’re a real inspiration! :)

  55. Sancho says:

    I was sent to a State Hospital as a child. I was arrested for a lot of things. My father just died, my mom didn’t care, I had no supervision and I hung out with stoners. I needed money for drugs and was arrested. In the drug program I was in, I attended AA meetings. Oh, by the way, I never really drank, I liked drugs. Anyways, I spent the next 23 years in AA. Everyone told me that if I drank, I’d die or live a long, slow, horrible death in the gutter.

    After 23 years, I finally had a drink. I had wondered about it for years. Even the Big Book says to try it if you want. So I did. I didn’t rob anyone, I did not explode. I’m not living in the gutter. In fact, I’m married, I’ve got a great job, two kids and I bought a house.

    I guess I wasn’t a “real alcoholic” as they say.

  56. Ya whoever posted this is an alcoholic in denial or just someone who has no clue and an apinion big enough to take up that much space. AA is the only thing keeping me sober. The phenomenon of craving is relieved by a spiritual experience. Read the big book work the steps go to meetings and then u can talk, buddy.

  57. And mas u r very angry

  58. Too f+ing funny says:

    OMG…this is too funny..and yes, I am a drug addict and alcoholic and this cracks me up because it is so true. I got myself sober because shooting dope in the school’s bathroom where I teach is no way to live (yes, I teach little children, muhawhawhaw…I rock it). Grow up people, AA is a social group to give people a reason to get out of the house and bitch about their lives…it’s like having a group of boring friends to bitch to. It’s cool for some, me, I couldn’t stand it. I did have an upper middle class upbringing and was raised to be self-reliant. I went to college, got me an edumacation and a job. I was also a raging heroin addict/pothead with an alcohol chaser type of person. Go fig. I got sober after a couple DUI’s and pissing off enough people, plus o.ding. The kicker is, I GOT MYSELF SOBER. It was me, no one else. I stay away from drugs and alcohol because I love them so much but they will kill me because I don’t have limits or self-control when using them. People in AA substitute AA dogma for their drugs. It activates the same part of the brain. Hey, if it works for you, go for it, but not everyone needs it, that’s all.

  59. Too f+ing funny says:

    Also, the Old Timer worship is sick…and they all want to fuck you, in the name of sobriety of course…

  60. ez says:

    AA is nonsense. Nonsense with a success rate slightly below that of natural remission. Nonsense with a higher rate of suicides than in the same studied population that did not receive AA “treatment”. Nonsense with buckles on.

    In what other “disease” is prayer and confession considered a valid treatment? More nonsense.

    In AA taking advantage of ‘newbies’ is so enshrined that they even have a ‘cute’ name for it- 13th stepping. More nonsense, but a worse form of morally bankrupt nonsense.

    Nonsense, bollocks, total bollocks.

  61. David says:

    I am so glad I stopped going. The last straw(about 9 months ago) was my sponsor who claimed that on an acid trip an angel kicked him down a flight of stairs. He literally believed that this actually happened and he knew that in the past I was an Atheist. Little did he know I never stopped being an Atheist(but acted more like a Pantheist merely dancing around my disbelief). My beliefs are very Buddhist(I used to be a Nichiren Buddhist and eventually created my own mantra which is ME eliminating the desire to drink, NOT a higher power and it actually works given that I chant everyday which is a form of meditation). I still think a “moral inventory” is good for oneself, and there is therapeutic reasons for paying people back money owed and such(apologizing, leaving people alone that I shouldn’t fuck with, so on and so forth). But let’s just be honest here, overall AA is bullshit. I remember hearing wackjobs say things like “keep it simple STUPID!!!” always making sure to insult their own intelligence. I spent my ENTIRE life(will until I was about 26 since elementary school) believing I was a moron and my parents, my teachers, friends, etc all told me I was wrong but my self esteem was in the toilet the whole time so I felt they were lying to me. I finally reclaimed my dignity and self respect and some dumb fuck demands(and yes, lots of them-not all as some are good people) but the really self righteous legalistic ones stared down their nose with that annoying cult like brain washed stupid giggly grin on their face demanding through peer pressure that I would degrade myself like I had done my entire childhood, teen years, and early adulthood(as a 30 year old). Fuck that! Also this bullshit about how I HAD to write my fourth step ON PAPER and not my laptop just to “make sure I can follow directions”. Thank you very fucking much, I DO have my honorable discharge from 8 years in the Navy, I DO show up to work on time. I am about to graduate with THREE associates degrees from the community college(was working in a tire factory and was trying to figure out what I wanted to do professionally so I ended up building up piles of credits in that journey). I DO pay my bills on time. I have played the Piano since I was three(classically), the Bassoon all through Jr. High and High School(and my main degree as the other two are for general and applied science is for the Bassoon), played the Bass guitar for 16 years, and played the Violin for seven(classical as well). I also have a 3.5 GPA through hard work and studying my ASS off. It’s NOT my fault that this loser was so incapable to follow directions that he drank himself homeless and at 40 something he hasn’t done shit but AA with his life. I obviously can follow directions, I am not a god damned 8 year old. I have better things to do than to sit around with a bunch of whiny “sober” drunks laughing about the times they neglected their kids or the power got shut off…ha ha ha ha fuck you(lol!). I AM better than that, I DO have self respect.

  62. Mere says:

    I’m not going to sit here and both you out, but I would like to say YOU and your Uncle Charlie are fucking morons, the AA program is not moronic. It’s only save thousands of people’s lives. How about you open up your narrow mind and look at all the good things AA has fine for people . IT IS A DISEASE it was just recently classified in medical terms as a disease. Dart learning and stop shoving all your atheist moronic ideas down everyone’s throat

  63. Tyler Dyrden says:

    I have been in the program since I drank and dialed my ex partners 6 months ago – I have a sponsor and I’m working the steps at present.

    I did have a problem with the 1st step – admitting that I’m powerless. I’m not and I know I’m not. I just drank and smoked pot too much. I plan on going back to being a social drinker and pot smoker eventually but I’m definitely taking a long break and will go back when I feel I deserve it.

    I have a major problem with the fact they encourage you not to quit smoking cigs, the logic that don’t try to do too much at once…BS! I was up too a pack a day after I joined, and just recently quit cigs after 6 months in AA I felt worse from that then any drinking and I’m so glad I’m done with them. BTW I did that all on my own, cold turkey, no support group, patch or whatever. I just stapled my mouth shut and was done with them

    LISTENING TO ENDLESS SELF ABSORBED DRONING SHARES FOR 6 MONTHS HAS BEEN EAR BLEEDING TORTURE

    Another issue I have is after the serenity prayer – which im good with, is the brainwashing added AA prayer of keep coming back – your worth it so work it blah blah – it kinda gives me the creeps

    Putting it all down was not that big a deal and I feel great, but I do feel I can go back in moderation but then Ill probably be fired by my sponsor and labeled a dry drunk.

    I do strongly believe its a brainwashing cult for undisciplined addicts, and totally agree with alot of the ragging of AA on these post. Its full of +. I….Hilarious – Kyra Rocks!

  64. Happiness says:

    Thank you for writing this colorful and honest expose of sorts. I was in AA from the time I was 19 to 24, so fuck people who are criticizing you for your age. I wholeheartedly agree with what you observed because I saw, experienced, and did the same things. It is a cult and is more harmful than helpful if you look at it objectively and critically from a non-true believer standpoint, all of these people that are pro-AA would see the same things, see what we see. They are sadly brainwashed and disollusioned but it’s understandable, they still think to live without the totalitarian guidance of “the program” is BAD and foolish and tainted by “alcoholic thinking”, that to live in a logical world where things are questioned and decisions are based on reality testing instead of dogma is chalk full of character flaws and is self-seeking. How pathetic. Yea Uncle Charlie quit drinking…Uncle Charlie also smokes a pack a day, drinks a pot of coffee, has a shitty diet, stresses over being “doomed” and not working the program as “progressively” as possible the “right” way, feels like he’s going crazy and when he tries to get help from members tell him he’s “going sane”, he has to appear as if he is following the “will of god” and if it doesn’t appear to members that he is then he’s pressured to change according to the will of other members. Of course, the program works…if you work, so work it cuz you’re worth it…I just happen to be worth much more than that so, No Thanks, I’ll pass.

  65. miguel says:

    funny why she dissed AA but not the Agnostic AA? Why so selective? What a bitch.

  66. kristin says:

    Yes you are right, I sit there and think WTF all the time!

  67. miguel says:

    I hate drugs & alcohol. but i hate atheists more.

  68. Rod says:

    You are not completely incorrect…However your stance and approach is most harsh.I’ve been in and out of A.A. for 25 yrs. Mostly out.Sometimes I wish I were one of those Morons. Unfortunately A.A. claims it is all inclusive… But .. I find it boring, stagnant and redundant. It really needs to evolve beyond its rather crude foundation…That could be the reason why it continues to decline with very few necommers staying on…Just the old Brain deads with the walking talking Big Book rhetoric.

  69. Perfect Analysis! says:

    Awesome article! Anyone who is seriously praising this fucked up cult, give yourself the credit. All they did was take your money and the credit. They are a business and a ruthless one at that, they actually could easily be called a terrorist cult. If you can read the story below of when I was duped into working at a rehab run by AA/NA and still not see whats wrong with them then honestly you are a lost cause and were better off on substances than spreading this poison…

    You want undeniable proof that they basically just care about money? First off they are a registered business and absolutely in no way either a nonprofit or a not for profit. They are finaces by the state so they have tax exemptions and income based on their ‘service’, essentially creating obnoxious blind idiots who were better off on their way to dying (i would rather die than give myself up to anything because I enjoy substances). On

    Much more serious though, this is a true story in the next paragraph. I quit after this (yes i initally fell for it and even worked for $6.75 an hour. I also filed complaints with the state and federal courts. But they have unquestioned support and virtual immunity. Anyway here it goes, if this doesnt show you how ruthless they get to scare up business and squeeze every penny then you honestly are too stupid to accept your own success so, since you cant think for yourself, read this. Think honestly. I bet you can find similar practices across the country from this cult. If you can still defend them, do the workd a facor and eat a bullet. I know others with almost identical experiences of profit over help and making kids and parents martyrs for their ‘rightoues cause’. Not really, its just more scares parents bring more angry and scared kids which brings in more self satisfying money to buy more mansions and toys at the expense of playing on peoples fears and playing ther emotions. Ok enough intro, just read it and dont ever defend them again or you might as well be doing this to people as well.

    There was a kid at a rehab who was sick. He needed help and he was scared to death to leave because he knew he couldnt handle being around his home and the temptations it had. His parents werent all that well off and i suspected they had their own drug issues. So after 14 days his insurance said that they were cutting it off. He was sobbing, and begging for help and a chance to stay, offering to work in the kitchen for his room and board, anything. They sent him home. He killed himself two days later and is on the ‘board of failures’ as an example of those who dont work the steps or dont follow all their practices. Sick. They failed him, he didnt fail. He wanted help and he was willing to work and pay, but insurance is guarenteed I guess and thats more important. Another kid was an athiest, unbudgingly and absolutely. He didnt buy into any of it. After 14 days he was hoping his insurance would cut him off since obviously he wasnt benefitting, actually vocally criticizing the methods and pointing out the inaccuracies and self promoting bulshit they pushed. His insurance was better. They preapproced him for 45 days, and he was not going to be medically cleared until then. If that doesnt show what they care about, what does? They had an empty bed for 45 days after they forced the kid who needed help out and essentially used his death to scare others to accept them or this would be them. And the kid who was miserable, pointed out their lies/methods of manipulation/and directly left them speechless time after time by pointing out their relapse rates and how they create their relapses and their examples of dead youths… Its not finished by the way, this gets way worse. Anyway he ended up walking out, walking 26 miles to a bus station, and his family considered him a failure (Al-Anon had called and tomd them he walked out against doctors orders and needed to complete a 45 day treatment plan they had worked out) for not staying until they deemed him cured (the dead kid who begged to stay was given the clearance and said to be cured, and the one who saw through them and had openly stated that every day in the rehab was reinforcing his desire to use more just to erase the experience was never cleared) and now because he wasnt cleared, and at the insistance of Al-Anon, his parents wouldnt let him home after walking for hours there. So now they sent a desperate kid to his grave and destroyed a family over false claims that he needed their lies to stay clean. So he ended up being told he had to go and complete a rehab before being accepted back. The experience was so bad for this kid that after being told he had no family support unless he gave in to the program (Al-Anon tells parents to force their kids to hit rock bottom and offer zero support if they arent compliant with AA/NA- so they scare parents by telling them this is life or death, so you have to force them to realize they wont survive without the help of AA/NA and $30,000 monthly fee to stay….). So yeah, instead of a life of lies and with Al-Anons insistance his parents turn their back, he gave himself a deliberate overdose cocktail of drugs. The mom felt so guilty she hung herself. His 6 year old brother will never be the same. The father is trying to sue the organization but they are being protected by the states and courts. This is seriously a dangerous organization, do not give them credit if you got sober there, you CHOSE it, you deserve credit, and realizing that you do have the power is important for the eventual reality that self control is possible, be it the ability to keep friends that drink or the self control to enjoy what you want and stop before it becomes an issue, thats upto you. But if you really defend an organization that lies and manipulates and preys on weak willed scare kids and parents for profit while actually and knowingly creating a higher relapse rate, and causibg more suicides and overdoses after leaving than the drugs themselves and not ising any treatment. Terrorists. Seriously. More people need to stand up to their methods and open the eyes of these victims they scare into membership and convince to work for low wages or even donate time, despite an average center profiting over $8 million every year with an overhead and enployee wages totalling under $1mill. So i guess they dont lie about one thing- they do trust in a higher power- but its just their higher power is money beyond that they really dont care..

  70. Perfect Analysis! says:

    As a human it is almost impossible to truly hate drugs and alcohol. And hating athiests is pretty close minded, especially when virtually every intelligent grounded scientist/physicist/mathmateician has proven beyond a doubt that there is no longer any unexplained ‘God’ like being that could possibl exist in its religious sense. Additionally, even many priests and religious leaders have begun to accept religion as a necessary way to keep order amongst those who have no moral compass (recent studies have shown thise who claim deep religious roots are ten times more likely to live exactly opposite of the teachings of charity, helping the needy, defending the weak, sacraficing for others etc etc. Those who are most involved are actually people who do not identify with religion and do it for te good of it, religion was found to more often become used as an excuse to do the opposite and defend evocentric selfish and sometimes a horrific nature behind the image. Also creationists on average have an IQ 14 points lower than those who accept logic reason and science. Einstein actually proved a theory that the existance of a celestial being who was omnipotent was as preposterous and likely as believing in a flying spaghetti monster. So an embellished story that in its original text calls fOr woman to be subservient and lesser, Gave the ok to use fellow people as slaves and to treat them as they wish aside from outright killing them, promoted racism, denied scientific fact, and claims such ludicrous things as the earth being formed 3,000 years ago is prObably more insane to Place as anything other than a story written a long time ago about a guy who was simply one of the first people to teach social equality and displayed patience that inspired others to take his words and read waaaay into them… Well its really a good model to follow the teachings of this man so I dont knock it but if deep down you cant realize what it is, you missed the last stop of the train to evolution… We have touchscreen cellphones that a decade ago could be called a creation of God- but it is a creation of man. Jesus literally tells people he is in all of us- as in we all can be good and help and live happily alongside each other. How that causes biblical justification for absurdedly irrational and close minded humans to still exist… Well honestly i envy the ability to not have to see the grim realities that now adays most athiests claim religion as a pOlitocal move to get the votes of the dumb and gullible. No offense. Dumb people are happy and blessed, people who see the reason, logic, and can see the direction we are headed are pretty depressed but dont be so ignorant to say you hate athiests, it makes me want to hurry along your evetual extinction (people whocant keep up with reality and obsess over absurd fairy tales will be extinct, pretty soon. God says junp off the highest balcoy you can find and have faith! Pinky swear he will give you the last seat in heaven).

    Just to think about, if there is a heaven and hell, then they would have to literally be larger than any object to fit the amount of dead people since our “creation”, essentially even if only a fraction of people got into heaven from the christian faith, it would have to hold 100’s of billions of people, and hell would be in the 10’s of trillions. Seriously? And that just grows until your all loving god brutally burns all creatures when he gets bored? I wish i could accept that fairy tail. Sorry buddy enjoy your time cuz your just getting buried and turned to nutrients to finish your input here. There is no magic existence that continues. If your right though, ill tell you what, ill give you $10. Armageddon and eternal hellfires and magic all seeing beings danding prder respect and money is the lobgest running scam, so kinda got you conned i guess. Hate all you want, it still wont change your reality that its done when its done, infinity is forever and we cant comprehed because we arent infinite, but there has always been a universe, infinitely across eons of generations and iterations of the formations of galaxys and the eventual complete compression again to a massive black hole that bursts to create an identical replica over and over. Pretty much proven fact at this point. Heres some sunglasses buddy, welcome to the age of reason, the truth might be hard to look at. A finite existance means accepting death as a non existence something we cant fathom because we dont exist after. Sorry. Watch out you dont slip on the burst bubble!

  71. Perfect Analysis! says:

    To people defending AA, seriously give yourself the credit if you acheived happiness in sobriety, moderation, new connects for shit, whatever you want. But dont defend an arrogant lying organization that does soooo much more harm than good. People make choices. Do reaearch andfind put why, dont deny your own self of its worth. Dont give credit to a multimillion dollar business that only truly exists to make the top people rich (and i suspect to see how absurd and stupid they can make their members look). Anything that tells people tha they have no power, they have no control, and do what they say or face death is absolutely way more harmful then you realize. And honestly before I become an obnoxious close minded reality denying powerless and flawed human i would rather keep my integrity and honestly i would die before turning my free will over to an organization that uses death fear and blind faith to keep people supporting them. The founder was a sexist prick who if he was alive today would probably be in jail. The cult is full of lies and manipulation. You go in andthey claim no religion necessary. Now let us pray. Well I dont pray. I do what I want, i will enjoy my life and surrenderfor anyone. It takes a real weak will to fall for this blatant of a cult atmosphere. They lie within 5 minutes, they end up trying to convert you to ignorance like them after claiming that never happea, they ridicule those who are strong enougb to stand alone, they fuck up families for insurance money, they destroy lives. The lives they destroy are way more valuable than someone so stupid to actually not see the ignorance and dangers of their entire business model by using death as a promotional tool and relapses are ok!! Of course for $30k a pop they are great! Dont have money? Tough shit we cant help you. I cant wait to see this cult shut down by the government someday for all the harm they do. Its worse than methadone lifetime treatment. Seriously, gimme a hotshot and bury me before taking me around any rainwashed steppers. Bragging about working steps on a wedding instead of choosing to enjoy your life? Wow please never never will i be that. I will cut my dick off first. AA people are intolerant close minded simpletons who honestly arent worth the air they breathe if they believe that magic sky man from old books is the only thing keeping you sober. I bet you were a lot more fun fucked u… Just one thing that pretty much sums it up; if you went to AA because stuff ran your life, and now you have to give up your life or die, whats the point? Really? Ill shhot up rat poison before letting those faggots close off my mind to the truth.

  72. wtf says:

    Some things your article doesn’t mention are that AA is free if you don’t want to contribute, self-supporting if you do, has no political affiliation, doesn’t care if you believe in god or some abstract idea of the good, or the ocean, and that it’s an autonomous community of people helping each other without a profit-motive. My grandma was a drunk, my mother was a drunk, and you could keep counting back. Some people relate differently to alcohol or drugs than other people and a lot of the time that causes some big problems. I could bail on AA and maybe stay sober without it, who knows, but by being around I get to help out someone else who’s struggling with some of the stuff I’ve come through. That’s a nice feeling, and there aren’t many places in the world where people get together and help each other for free. You mix up, maybe, the difference between a cult and a community.

  73. biggreen says:

    Great thoughts Kyria, keep it flowing. Rehabbed in 87 then spent 2-3 years doing the AA thing, 90 in 90, coffee commitments, getting a sponsor, all the things you are supposed to do in AA. But questions always gnawed at me, like what is MY definition of sobriety? Not AA’s, not the medical field’s version, but MINE? What, no method of recovery from alcoholism existed
    before AA? And if one did, what was it, and what would that path look like? Well, you can guess how much enthusiasm my questions were met with in AA, try chirping crickets or the usual slogan “keep coming back”. Then it dawned on, all the time while I was “out there” getting shit-faced drunk, I was always trying to be someone else, fit in with a certain group, seeking approval of my peers and others, seeking to fit in. I was now repeating the SAME DAMN PATTERN IN AA. When I realized that I would take responsibility for myself and my own actions, I discovered I didn’t need to “fit in” with any group, click, church or AA meeting anymore, I was free from seeking approval from others and it was extremely liberating. Freedom! Imagine that, true free will and all the responsibilities that come with it! I was free to seek out answers to my questions without being filtered through the prism of AA. Look, I do believe AA can and does work for many, and it definitely helped me on my way towards a new life, for which I am grateful. Having said this, do I believe there are alternate ways to recovery? YES Do I believe an alcoholic can drink again? YES. Define “drinking again”, and I believe you’ll know the answer deep inside of yourself, for I believe only the individual can answer this question for him/herself. For me, I always drank to get shit-faced,that was the plan. Now that I’ve grown up and “on”, yes I do believe I could have a drink socially because that is WHERE I AM AT. Have I tried drinking socially yet? No, but I may someday, just not today (ha,ha). For any AA’ers reading this – remember that drinking was only a symptom of our disease, and diseases can be cured. So “keep coming back”………………………lol!

  74. David Graham says:

    The American Medical Association is not a particularly legitimate organization, or authoritative, to be sure. Do you happen to have a full copy of the abstract you are citing, as well as the referenced studies upon which this was built? By the way, it was defined by consensus, which has been proven ineffective in 1960 (Think the DSM-IIV) as it bases such a diagnostic decision on group consensus. The DSM-V has thrown out this approach. And this is a much more reputable source than your drug-focused (on the family) “American Medical Association” and their “Journal”

    #ANONYMOUS (From the top of this list)

  75. chronic-cull of ridic says:

    My mom’s boyfriend is an AA member, and i’ve been hearing every AA line you can imagine, for about a decade. I’ve been to meetings, and heard the disempowering talk. AA isn’t necessarily for alcoholics. It is for people with poor conditioning, and low intelligence. Many of those people would need some other dogma, if they did not drink, to guide them, and offer some sense of purpose. They would be in church, grovelling before some daddy-figure or other, without drinking and hating themselves for it. They are fulfilling, and even proving, the expectation of their powerlessness.

    No one wants to admit that there are serious metabolic issues incipient to alcoholism. That would require too much personal responsibility.

    Or that “asshole” is just as much a drug as alcohol. And that self-murder is at the core of all of it.

    There are plenty of healthier cults, in which these folks would thrive, because they are products of this society’s worst conditiining; hobbled by belief. Certainty is the essential lie. That certainty is focused upon the idea that they are basically flawed. This is the lie that gives birth to all the others. It is the birthright of our traumatic society. And it is enforced from birth, by reward and punishment, rather than example to guide development.

    AA is a symptom of a greater problem; the fragility of the human mind. We are not yet ready to face it. It would rip up the fabric of society, to do so.

    Selah…

  76. TMS says:

    I’ve recently been given a copy of Kyria’s book and had a look on the internet to find out more about the author. I’m also in AA so I was a little shocked to discover she thinks I’m a moron. She’s not the only one over the years, though, and I’ve been called worse things.

    Sadly, much of what she is saying about AA is true. I haven’t had a drink or a drug for 16 years and prior to that I was in and out of AA for over a decade, and I couldn’t stop, and I literally went from white-collar job to the gutter.

    What I’ve realised over the years is that what you find in AA is a microcosm of the society you live in. Democracy also means more than one opinion. I got sober in Oz, where the fellowship is quite different (Aussies generally have the bullshit detector switched on to extreme at all times, especially when it comes to any hokey ideas about god coming out of America) yet on visits to the US, I must admit I was quite shocked to encounter groups where single individuals or celebrity speakers were held up as paragons of virtue and put on pedestals. I avoid AA nazis, big-book thumpers, manipulators, bullshit artists, ginger-ale and Jesus proselytisers, god botherers, discouragers and predators like the plague. You can spot ’em a mile off and there are groups where those people tend to gravitate. But it’s their business, not mine. I don’t have to like it though, and I don’t have to spend time with people whose opinions I don’t share. However, I found just as many groups where that wasn’t happening.
    Voting with your feet regarding which meetings you attend and who you associate with is a strategy that’s held me in good stead over the years.

    No one has the right to tell anyone how to go about anything. An opinion is just that: an opinion, not a fact. In my case, I learned that in AA. Others will have been fortunate enough to learn it elsewhere.

    Here is my experience, for what it’s worth:

    AA is not for everyone. It is not up to AA members to condemn any other kinds of treatment, as some of these reduce harm and others will help keep people happy and sober. Plenty of people find their way into 12-step programs at a low point in their lives. Not all will feel the need to stay, or even to remain sober, nor might they need to, nor should they be condemned for that. AA is there if you want it, not because someone else thinks you do. Genuine, gentle love, even if it’s sometimes delivered as tough love, has no conditions attached to it.

    If anyone had told me I had to believe in god when I came back to AA, I would have been straight out the side door. That didn’t happen. Three wonderful men gave me their phone numbers and said they’d take me to meetings if I wanted. (Note: if I wanted.) They didn’t tell me what to do, and they didn’t tell me I had to work the steps. But they did give me some pretty sage advice: don’t pick up the first drink and you won’t get drunk.

    My sponsor was an atheist, a world war II veteran with over 40 years’ sobriety when I met him. He believed the love in the rooms of AA was his higher power, and it worked just fine for him. He used to share that from the floor and was held in very high regard and I’ve never heard him condemned within the fellowship for his beliefs either back then or in the years since his passing.

    If AA members were doing the steps the way they claim to be, they wouldn’t be making moral value judgements about the veracity of others’ efforts or how they aqcuired or maintained their sobriety.

    Bill Wilson, Dr Bob and any others held up as gurus in AA were ordinary, fallible human beings who, according to the principles of the fellowship, are undeserving of guru status. That is a view widely held in AA in Australia. However, that doesn’t mean the intent of the founders was bad at the outset. Millions will attest to its efficacy. I believe the god talk upon which it was founded reflected the religious nature of American society at the time. Yet, I truly believe that AA practised in its intended form has no religious basis.

    My original sponsor used to sell jars of honey and fresh-shucked oysters in the inner-city pubs I frequented after I left AA the first time. I would bump into him quite often on Friday nights. Not once did he pester me about going back to AA or getting sober; he never spoke of god or the program. He simply asked if I was OK, asked about my family and spent a bit of time chatting. He never tried to manipulate me. On most of those occasaions, he also bought me a beer or two. He did say if I ever needed him, he was a phone call away. At a certain point, I took him up on that offer. But I know that had I not called him, he would have regarded that as my business.

    I view AA through a rough-and-ready Aussie prism, which has at its core a healthy distrust of authority figures, which is why I believe the fellowship here is quite different.

    I listen every now and then to the late Jack Brennan. There is no real “speaker circuit” in Oz, but Jack was called occasionally to speak at different conferences around Australia. He was an Irish-American who grew up in New York, a knuckle man, stick-up artist and wheel-man for the mob who found his way to AA after living drunk on the streets of the bowery. Jack’s daughter married an Aussie and he moved to Oz in later life.

    One of the things he used to say, and I’ll paraphrase some of it: “If you have an opinion, good on ya. I won’t try to change your point of view. I hope it’s the right opinion, but it’s not my business one way or the other. And (my emphasis) IF I CAN’T HELP YOU, I WON’T HURT YOU. Because if I try to force my views down your neck and you’re at a vulnerable point in your life, you might go out and seek relief in a bottle, and you might die. That’s not what AA is all about.” He, too, was very clear about god botherers fdorcing people out the doors of AA in early sobriety.

    If that’s not love in action, what is? I suspect that among a certain group in AA, that simple message – possibly the original message, no matter how fallible those who first carried it – has been lost in the mire of guru status, do it my way or else, and the mistake of putting personalties above principles.

    Glad that wasn’t so in my case. AA did save my life, not because anyone made me do anything or believe in anything, but because they were there, stopped me from isolating, and gave me a way of living that turned me from a street bum and gutter drunk to a functioning member of society.

    I needed AA to do that, but others clearly don’t. We should all respect that. So perhaps it’s good we don’t make judgements one way or the other.

    Every one has a right to any opinion, whether we like that opinion or not.

  77. Glenjo says:

    The best advice you give is switch to weed. I quit heroin about 9 or 10 years ago(I never kept count) but I never stopped smoking weed. I was told by everyone I met in NA that I would never stop heroin if I kept smoking weed so I stopped going to NA. Here we are roughly 10 years later and I’m clean ( at least clean from heroin) but I smoke weed every day and I even have a couple drinks now and then. If AA or NA helps you then more power to you but I still think the whole thing is ridiculous. My NA “friends” don’t believe me but weed actually helps me stay off heroin for the simple fact that it combats boredom. If you really want to stop anything you will if you can’t it’s because you don’t really want to.

  78. Glenjo says:

    By the way, excellent writing.

  79. Glenjo says:

    By the way, excellent article/post/blog whatever it’s called good job

  80. bill says:

    My favorite AA saying is “He/She is back out there.” Where the fuck is “back out there”? My name is Bill, I live in Back Out There Texas.

  81. I took one cake. That was eight years ago. I don’t go to meetings and I don’t drink. I don’t pick up narcotics. I don’t smoke. My brother in law quit going to AA meetings quite a while ago and he’s got more than double my time in. He says he likes AA but he got tired of the people, some of them.
    Another thing I don’t like is sitting at a podium meeting and staring at the toes of my runners and listening to some guy tell flagrant lies. Want examples? Never mind. I don’t care. There are enough lies in the big book. I don’t need to make an anti hero status about being a booze ghoul.
    Big drama: “Three men left the meeting and they DIED THAT NIGHT!” “Three million will die this year!” “400 died last week!” This is from Jerry, he was in the mafia, don’t you know? He shot a cop when he was five years old. To be fair they don’t call on him too much anymore. There are a lot of old fools like that; they got a stock share that they trot out, “You young people don’t have to go what I went through?” Well–why not? You had your fun old man. I never patronized anybody like that, ever.
    Getting clean isn’t my biggest accomplishment in life, so why should I make it the centerpiece of my life? No wonder people in AA slip.
    Stay away from meetings for a while and then come back and see if you don’t have a whole new perception.

  82. Louis says:

    Not everyone in aa is brainwashed. Not everyone wants a perfect Bill W., since no one is perfect. I like the fact that Bill was messed up, with more flaws the the hope diamond. I do not have to be like anyone in aa I only try to be of service to my family and friends. I am not the power I am not responsible for anyone other then myself and my children. I am the only one responsible for my own actions. I think is is great that others can have a drink from time to time. I can not. And yes one drink and the person I have become over the last 26 years without a drink is gone. That is my belief and if that bothers anyone well,, too bad. I have a great life and its been possible only because of a higher power I found through aa which I do not understand and a group of drunks I call my friends. Aa was just what I needed to get a start and I have no doubt I’d be dead if not for the help I received freely. So if you are just wondering if aa is right for you try a few different meetings you will be sure to fi d one that fits, when you do and keep it up. Do not listen to people who tell you it doesn’t work because the 26 years I have says otherwise.
    Louis

  83. garth brass (Sydney) says:

    have been continuously sober for > 31 years – still a member of AA – I know how you feel

  84. garth brass (Sydney) says:

    I am not trying to be condescending – didn’t mean ”I know how YOU feel”, but ”I KNOW how you feel” – get me ?

  85. Seaport says:

    <>

    This

  86. Seaport says:

    “It’s not that AA stops people from drinking, it’s that no one who hangs out in AA drinks.”

    This

  87. Anonymous says:

    Fuck you you angry cunt

  88. Nilssex says:

    Not a fan of the 12-Step cults…

    but not really a fan of the bashers either (even when they’re funny as fuck like Carnage).

    What’s the solution? – What’s the vision for ‘disease-less’ quitting/cessation/abstinence?

    Trimpey, Peele, Orange Papers guy – ultimately do more damage than good.
    Rants like the above shake things up, but where do you tell an f’d up alcohol
    addict to go?

    I don’t know.

  89. Rosie says:

    I have been involved in AA for over a year now. While in a three month treatment center in Southern California I was really struggling with AA. I felt myself getting brainwashed, I even lectured a sober friend (who doesn’t do aa) on the phone for an hour one day about how he would relapse and was a dry drunk, i felt so bad that he would never know the happiness that you can only get from aa. None of this felt right. I am an atheist but was forcing myself to pray every day and “fake it til i make it”.
    Once i started doing my own research I felt so relieved that other people disagreed with aa as well. And extremely surprised at the low success rates. I started looking into alternate forms of recovery such as smart and rational recovery. I asked the staff members questions about aa and voiced the difficulties i had with it. I was told to call my sponsor or read the big book. It worked for them “what makes me different” “oh you think you’re UNIQUE, HAH!’ yes sorry i actually am a different person, we are all unique, why is that a bad thing? When i told one staff membe that success rate of AA is 5% according to the little research that has been done, she replied with “well so is chemo” WHAT?! i couldnt beleive she said that.
    Then one day i was called into the case managers office. She yelled at me for “confusing” the girls. I thought she was literally about to kick me out because i didnt believe in aa and was discussing it with the girls. I told her i thought it was harmful to tell us that there is NO OTHER way besides aa to get sober because many of the girls at my house were also struggling and felt like failures because “the miracle” wasnt happening. And get this, she told me that there are no other methods of recovery besides aa. What?! Your a drug counselor and run a treatment center and you dont know that there are any other ways to recover? Where do these people go to school? This place is $30,000. All they basically do is take us to AA meetings. After that i couldnt voice my opinions loudly because it wasnt worth it. Also we only went to AA meetings, most of which you cant even talk about drugs, when 14/15 of the girls in my house were DRUG addicts. But oh wait every staff member told me that no, im also an alcoholic because apparently they are the same thing. I also had a staff tell me that i would never be happy and would live a miserable existence unless i had a spiritual awakening and did the 12 steps “to the best of my ability” . I was so offended and felt so ostracized in this community.
    Orange County is a HUGE recovery community. there are over 1000 meetings a week. I have gone to a lot of different meetings. There are also tons of treatment centers around here, many of my friends have gone to them and they are all similar to mine. They need to teach people that AA isnt the only way because this thinking does a lot of harm. Sometimes in the back of my mind i still think im doomed because the aa indoctrination really did get to me for quite a while. I am in sober living in OC now and am still required to go to meetings and write “god letters” every night (yes, letters to god, and then a response back pretending you are god” I feel ridiculous writing this out, like i am at a jesus camp or something. I went to a couple smart meetings and the girls here said they dont see how that could ever keep me sober. AA makes so many people close minded I cant take it. Great if it works for you, but really it makes a lot of people assholes. When people look down on others and talk shit because they dont work a “good program”, such bullshit. My mom is in aa and really feels that it helps her. Good for her. But come on, a spiritual disease? Thats not a real thing. sorry.

  90. Tim says:

    Kyria,

    I hope you come back and read comments here. Such a wide range of experiences here. But I noticed this is almost 1-1/2 years old so who knows if you revisit it.

    I’m an ex-JW and in recovery. AA is my choice for helping me stay sober. Don’t even know how I ended up on this article. I think I googled “aa is full of assholes” or something– and I read the entire thing before I realized you wrote it. It was like Christmas! You see, I’ve also read your book (which you autographed and dedicated to the smurf that lives in my medicine cabinet, but I digress), and I’ve enjoyed your writing a lot! It was, ironically, a huge part of my recovery that first year in sobriety because it helped to sweep away a lot of the leftover JW junk that had been taking up space in my head between 1993 when I left the organization and 2009 when I got sober. Your book and quite a few others (“CofC” and “Out of the Cocoon” to name a couple) were actually crucial to my steps 2 and 3! I treasure them.

    All that to say I don’t know who my HP/God/FSM is. And I agreed with what you wrote here. And my “b.s. cult meter” is turned up in a lot of AA meetings. Didn’t we get quite enough of that in “The Truth?” The REAL truth is, and you nailed it, there are soooooooo many assholes in AA. I just got home from a meeting full of people talking about how defective they are and how they just aren’t good enough. Utter crap. If there is a God, said god didn’t get me sober to be a Debbie Downer, talk about how utterly useless I am or to bring others down. That is the god I fired and his name was Jehovah. There have been plenty of AA assholes take cheap shots at me in meetings because I don’t take the same doom and gloom outlook as them. A guy tonight insinuated I “half measure” my program because I am contented with being a flawed human being who is going to f*** up regularly in the character defect department. The brown logs he squeezes into the bowl come out smelling of lavender fields and Chanel No 5 so he is, therefore, in a position to judge I suppose…. Thank HP he was there to set me straight! Whatever. Perhaps the next time I see him I’ll do a teeth check in the shiny reflective surface of his smug, bald head.

    I just don’t hang around those dingalings. And I try not to listen to their negativity– I’ll close my eyes, or go get coffee, or just leave. I hang out with the positive people in the rooms, and there aren’t many, who embrace the new life we’ve been fortunate to live. For whatever reason AA has worked so far for me. But it isn’t for everyone that’s for sure. There are other ways to get sober if someone wants to and I applaud them for finding what works for them.

    I completely understand if you never feel the urge to step foot into an AA room again. It sucks that you had that experience. But if you do, please come sit by me! I won’t push god/hp/fsm on you and I’ll politely ask my disease to stop doing pushups long enough for you to have the seat next to mine (totally agree with you there, that is just nonsense). We need more of you in the rooms of AA! At least we need more of you in MY AA meeting! Thank you for writing this.

    -Tim

    ps-the smurf in my medicine cabinet says hello.

  91. AA kills people says:

    I have been in healthcare for over 20years. It’s common knowledge that AA instructs people to quit cold turkey and never touch a drop again. It is also common knowledge that this practice can and does throw the human body into heart attacks, strokes, seizures, and comas to the point of instant death. It is ASTOUNDING to me that more doctors do not condem this cult. and make no mistake. It is a CULT.

  92. Wakiza says:

    LOVE, LOVE, LOVE THIS!!! This is exactly how I feel. I fucking hate AA with a passion. Stupid Jesus-freaks just traded one addiction for one that’s ten times more annoying. I’m currently 8-months sober pretty much on my own. (I have a therapist that I work with.) We do cognitive behavioral therapy to manage my feelings and find cognitive/thinking errors. We work on building relationships and creating/maintaining appropriate boundaries. Oh, and I’m an atheist.

    But, before I got sober I got in some alcohol-related legal troubles (8 months ago) and am currently stuck in a forced AA 12 Step Program. So I have people telling me I can’t be sober without God and forcing me to admit I’m a piece of shit full of shame and character defects when I don’t feel that way at all. I’ve been working on my addictions, voluntarily, for about 18 months now and I’m pretty fucking proud of what I’m accomplished. Quit smoking meth about a year ago. Quit drinking alcohol 8 months ago. Quit smoking marijuana 7 months ago. Quit smoking cigarettes 3 months ago – that one was the hardest. I’ve got my own “steps” and they’re working for me. Well, at least it’s only a 6 week outpatient program.”

    I’m going to re-read your blog post every single day to give me strength to survive and ignore these idiots I’m being forced to listen to and hang out with every day. Thank you so much!! I’m not alone!!

  93. just another drunk says:

    Thanks for the article.

    This is exactly how I feel after 14 yrs. of on-again-off-again AA mtgs. It’s time for me to quit the judgmental cult that AA has shown itself to be. I’ve never been associated with more self absorbed, narcissistic, arrestedly developed individuals who spew ego-centric self-serving bull-shit advice than in those rooms. This does not mean everyone is like this…but most are. AA DOES NOT WORK for everyone…and that is OK to accept for yourself. AA works for some people…good for them. If it doesn’t work for you (or me) we need to figure out what does.

    The best part of the program is connecting with others who have problems. CONNECTION is the “key” to staying sober. That’s the “God” or “Higher Power” principal in my mind. All we need to do is not take a drink, connect with nurturing, non-judgmental people and stay connected. Reach out to others, so they reach back to you when needed. A sense of belonging and community is the key for us ALL to thrive.

    Alcoholism is a metabolic disorder. Don’t forget to take extra B vitamins, Cortisol enhancing supplements and eat as healthy as you can…lots of greens throughout the first yr of getting sober.

  94. spyder says:

    Why not write about something you know about. By the way, if your are dumb enough to write that bullets go in shotguns, why should I believe anything else that you have to say. Do your homework before you rant. There is some truth in what you say. Some people in AA had no life, so they latch on to the life preserver and go around spouting slogans mindlessly. There are,however,many who use it as it was intended. A bridge back to life, not a replacement for a life. I doubt you would know any of them. You sound like such childlike jerk that I am sure that none of them would want anything to do with you. Stay miserable

  95. Fritz says:

    When I go to a psychiatrist I spend $200 for an hour
    and feel awful
    When I go to an AA meeting I spend a $1 and get a free cup of coffee
    The amazing thing about saying I am powerless over alcohol, computers or
    women I then make room for inspirational information that helps me be powerful over
    alcohol, computers, and women. PARADOX!!
    I have friends that are too good for AA that are 6 feet under
    I would much rather be a happier–healthier-wealthier moron having
    a blast in AA than a whining intellectual type too good to save his own life.

  96. kahealani says:

    I must say I found this little piece of fiction quite entertaining.It’s just a shame such a sensitive group of people were targeted. I actually found it quite cruel…but I just kept telling myself…”It’s SUPPOSED to be silly and hokie….it’s made-up, fiction!” Obviously!

  97. Alexander says:

    I was asked to join Al-Anon about 7 months ago to see what it was all about.I was fed the story that the 12 step program was not only for alcoholics, but anybody could apply them for every short coming in your life. Just subsitute your particular “character defect” for alcohol and all will work out fine. Durgs? Okay. Gamble? It’s all good. Beat the wife? Hey, you’re welcome! So, what techniques did they teach about managing your unmanageable life? Pray to god. That’s it, just pray. Sure, make a list of those you may have hurt, make amends where possible, but for the most part you are simply required to “turn your life over to a higher power” or “god as you understand him”. This quickly turns into the bait and switch game. It has to be the groups’ idea of god. Here’s a senario. I was asked for my idea of a higher power, and I said an elephant. I reasoned that an elephant can rip trees out of the ground with its nose, it can survive in areas that would kill me in less than a day, and by just waving its ears an elephant can lower its entire body temprature. It is indeed a most powerful creature, and greater than me. I was told that one cannot worship an elephant. I said the Hindus disagree. I was then told to come back to the next meeting when I was ready to be honest with myself. It’s their god, or you can’t be in the club.
    However, what I truly find disgusting is that AA and like-minded 12 step groups have become a haven for sexual predators. Back to court mandated sentences, not all of these people were busted for a DUI. Some of them were violent criminals who were told to attend AA meetings as part of their parole. This is extremely dangerous, as AA has all members remain anonymous. I had the joy of sitting next to a two time offender who was trying to avoid his third strike for a drug charge. However, he let slip that there are others that use AA to pick up on younger women, who are already feeling low, and AA is teaching them that they are “powerless” over everything in their lives. Including the chance that they might be the next “13th Step”. Just ask Karla Mendez, Gary Henderson, and Asenath Arnold…except they’re dead.
    Here is a short list of news articles that report of violence in AA and other 12 step programs. http://nadaytona.org/category/alcoholics-anonymous-murders/
    AA does not exist to help people, it is a cult that exists to keep itself existing. It takes all the credit for people that overcame their problems, but none of the responsibility for its failures. It is much like a child in that respect.

  98. Billshit says:

    Thank you. That was fucking hilarious.

  99. Lori says:

    I left over a year and a half ago and I’m still deprogramming from the cult’s message of being diseased and powerless. And,oh my yes, my disease is doing pushups in the parking lot was repeated over and over in every meeting ad nauseum. After a few years without alcohol, you start to get your mind back and you’re sitting in these rooms listening to these morons say all this shit that doesn’t make sense and put themselves and everyone else in the room down over and over and over again day after day. What a sham. And a shame. They shun me now because I am living in my disease. Yes, I can drink moderately, but that doesn’t compute to true believer cult members who are brainwashed – most for the rest of their lives because few will have the courage to leave. Fake friends are better than no friends at all, right? In the meantime, I’ve enjoyed success in my career and personal life while most of them are still stuck in retail or “sobriety” jobs. They are people who will never grow up and take responsibility for themselves and their own lives. My friend calls them “embalmed.” I thought that was a perfect description. Thanks again for this hilarious post.

  100. Great piece! You are 100% correct but then you don’t need anyone to tell you that. One thing with which I disagree – even in those rare AA Agnostic meetings you still have to call yourself by negative affirmations; powerless,, character defective, morally selfish, blah, blah, blah. These agnostics are still fooled by the ‘spiritual not religious’ BILLshit and can never leave or else they will die (or even worse be a ‘dry drunk’ – one of the ‘unfortunates’. GOD FORBID!!!!)

    They’re all vaginaballs with no lives. Fuck you you fucking fucktards. Push-ups! So fucking stupid. Oh, and also, these crazy fucks actually believe god is doing special favors just for them because they used to drink themselves into a dumb fuck stupor. Forget all the starving children around the world … You get special treatment cuz you’re an ”alcoholic.’ Idiots. Morons. All.

  101. CC VanCity says:

    I am not powerless… I am powerful
    There is no such thing as a spiritual disease
    I cannot hand over my will to god as gods don’t exist… And my will cannot be given away anyways
    A disease cannot do pushups… Let alone breathe or walk… Or talk
    My decisions to drink are mine… Not my disease… How can a disease control my wallet to open up with the corresponding currency or pin number
    I’m pretty sure its my will to quit… My will to drink my will to get high and my will to punch in my pin number… But I would never have thought my disease was able to make a double rum n coke no straw no lime :)

  102. CC VanCity says:

    Accountability and responsibility for our actions and positive affirmations… Why should I apologize to people that hurt me… That makes me a powerless doormat bitch

  103. This worn out BILLshit about ‘why do people criticize a program that helps so many and heart no one and you can leave whenever you want’ …….

    Is precisely why people push back so hard. There are HUNDREDS of ways the 12 steps hurt people, even if not especially, those ‘nice’ people who sit there day after day and give all thanks to their ‘higher power’ and the ‘program.’

    This ‘program’ is damaging to your core. It’s damaging in the very first step. You are NOT POWERLESS and you do NOT have a DISEASE. It just gets more damaging from there. Those who are so brainwashed to cry ‘why waaaawaaaawaaaa’ are the exact morons this spot on article is addressing. Let go and let god. Morons!

    Brilliant article Kyria.

  104. WAKIZA – You should be proud of yourself! Nice job! Keep coming back … Just not to the dangerous cult religion commonly known as the 12 steps!

  105. justin says:

    whoa, great honest assessment of alcoholics anonymous. one you don’t see everyday in journalism. thank you, street carnage.

    this is so spot on, and this is coming from somebody who spent 10 plus years there (most of my 20s). id stay sober for 2, 3 year intervals and come to the conclusion that if my “higher power” created me with only 2 options- to die a miserable drunk death or to hang around this big book thumping jesus freaks, id choose option number 1. trust me, when your whole life and social circle is revolved around meetings or planning aa events, a shotgun looks appealing, and sadly, many really do go that route.

    ive been sober on my own sometime now, with some help from SMART and Buddhist practices. but lately ive been thinking, about the dry drunk, its so shamefully Christian. its the same as in the church deciding whos going to be saved and who isn’t. whos a good Christian and whos not. but of course, everyone there is sober, just some people can quote literature better and bang on tables louder while spouting off insane bullshit. sadly, these are your leaders there.

    and to other posters, that’s great that youre in AA and that youre not brainwashed. but im 100 percent certain that if youre not going to turn around and at your next meeting share about how you need god, the steps, aa service work, etc or else your fucked. you have to. if you don’t play that game youre on the outs in AA. and be honest, being on the outs of your primary social circle sucks.

  106. justin says:

    the last straw for me is when all of my humor and joking around became fucking AA and “diseased” based, just like everyone around me was. speaker tapes on roadtrips to go do AA things instead of fucking music and driving to somewhere fun. wow shit fuck me. so glad.

  107. massive says:

    Hi Rosie. Im in LA and I Left AA after many years ago about 2 1/2 years ago. Get out now. Dont waste your life. You are right about everything you said. Leaving AA and stop13 step in aa are my blogs. Orange Papers is good too.

  108. FattyZ says:

    Well, I agree with her mostly. Being much older and having ‘sobered up’ a bunch of times from both drugs and alcohol, I go to meetings for a reason and I hate AA for many. Like I said I think she’s right mostly. The one good thing for me is (and I don’t believe I have a disease trust me)when I get banged up and I’m at the point I’m sitting on the couch and I don’t want to do (whatever) and I know later in the day I will have talked myself into it again. (regardless) I find if I actually make the effort to go to a stupid meeting and listen to their stupid bullshit that effort alone somehow re enforces my desire to stop (doing whatever) and I do. But she’s right, it is mind control bullshit, and more than that, most of them (IMHO) have PTSD/trauma related mental illness or something like it and will never experience anything even remotely resembling recovery. Why? Because they’ll just go along year after year reciting the same tired old bullshit. It’s OK to use it to “get sober” if you need or can use the group. I do think it has a place. The problem is the retards that end up there thinking its ‘a way of life’ and repeating that over and over. No, beyond getting sober, it’s a load of shit. : ) Thanks for the article. It made me laugh!

  109. Dr. Henry S says:

    Kyria,
    Thank you for your opinion and for mentioning different options like SMART Recovery, Moderation Management (and you might also note Women for Sobriety that started as a reaction to the all male ego driven aspects of AA that insist that one needs more humility – even uppity women and minorities and other folks on the less powerful side of our society).

    I have to say that your title is nasty and overly provocative. I know lots of people in AA who are definitely not ‘morons’ – but I get your point. Lots of what one hears at AA meetings indicates a goodly number of the less than intelligent zealots and true believers who parrot the AA clichés ad nausium. They a vocal group and there’s no way to know how many of them there are. Nor how many of them have gone stealth and launched their BS from high places (take Father Martin – please – who was financed by the US Dept. of the Navy to make his chalk talk films). It has been difficult to get SR, MM, SOS, WFS, LSR and HAMS any coverage, perhaps because the secret AA’ers get into the system and block anything that’s not part of their cannon.

    Despite some of your ‘dirty words’ (and as a student of Albert Ellis I’m not a word Nazi and don’t give a fuck if you do use the Lenny Bruce lexicon) you get your point across with humor that makes it memorable. I’m sorry you have to read some of the attacks on your mind and person from the zealot hard-core of the cult. I’m not saying that AA has not helped some people, but that may be because there was for a long time no other help available and they have done a hell of a job making sure no one knows of the alternatives and disparaging the alternatives with their zealotry and ignorance. I collect attacks written by AA’ers and other nonsense like the 2009 letter I received from Hazelden accusing those who won’t accept AA as their savior as being “spiritually challenged” and suggesting that something happened to such folks to make them rebel from authority and reject god (almighty) as they do. Yes Virginia, AA is religious and the courts have repeated ruled so. And no one should be court mandated or forced into any 12-step group.

    I will take a critical moment to separate AA from Overeaters A, in that over eating reflects poor judgment, but it does not lead to poor judgment, whereas alcohol really does screw up one’s ability to make good decisions (would anyone argue this?). So I’d suggest that some people do much better abstaining. Some people either lose their ability to make good decisions with just a small amount of alcohol (but not one fucking candy’s worth) or bullshit themselves because they have high tolerance and think that just because they can walk to their car, they have the skill and judgment to drive a car. So overdrinking does require some thoughtful changes and moderation ain’t for everyone. But note that Moderation Management considers a person successful whether they moderate or quit drinking – and they have a continuing support group for those who decide to abstain but want to stay with the folks they started out with. Good for them.

    Social support can be helpful. AA can be helpful. A lot of the crap one hears at an AA meeting can be very harmful and as some folks noted, can even be deadly. So if AA is your cup of tea, then go in carefully, and maybe balance it out with some science-based help too.

    BTW, SMART Recovery does have a central office and trains the volunteers who facilitate the online and face-to-face meetings, as does MM and Women for Sobriety. That’s why I regard them as safer and refer people to them first (not only if they don’t take to AA/NA). They have their crap detectors turned on and set rules and guidelines to see that they spread information that is supported by modern science. Go to their web sites and find out.

    So do I need to put on protective gear – have I launched a shit storm with my comments? Wish me and Kyria luck. Supporting secular and science-based options is not popular with some folks and they can be really cruel. I hope Kyria can find me (via SR or MM – I’m listed) so we can share ideas and support one another. All the best for a great blog.

  110. David says:

    I didn’t get sober because of AA. I got and stayed sober despite AA. I stopped going when I realized that I attended only to keep a log of the stupid things people said at meetings. It’s been two years since I’ve attended an AA meeting and I remain sober, and a volunteer in another, science-based program, SMART Recovery, where people are free to act stupid but rarely do.

    I’ve got a nice collection of idiotic pronouncements that some day I will turn into a humor piece.

  111. Mona Lisa says:

    Hey Kyria, you nailed it. The absolute, bat-shit craziness of AA, the upside-down logic, the fucked up rules (that they deny they have, even as they shun people who don’t follow them, the refusal to even CONSIDER that there might be ways to quit drinking that don’t involve joining a cult…it’s nearly impossible to adequately capture the lunacy in words, but you’ve done it. Good for you.

  112. Goldenblade says:

    My husband attends the AA – it works for him.

    I go to http://www.smartrecovery.org – that has worked wonders for me.

    Each to their own.

    I used to go to the AA and the Higher Power concept (being raised as a JW) bothered me because the Bible says that God has given one free will. Smart Recovery taught me that I was not powerless and that worked for me better. I didn’t appreciate the 13th stepping either.

    For me – and this is just personal – I like the fact that I was just a person with challenges – NOT an alcoholic. I was more than that label. I liked the fact that I did not have to sit in a room with everyone else constantly droning on about how bad things got.

    I focused on Goals and Values and moved forward past the challenge – and onto bigger and better things. Why keep focusing on something negative?

    Made new friends – new connections – new hobbies – new goals – life is sunny.

    Talking of God – he said in the Psalms that he puts one’s bad points “as far away as the sunrise is from the sunset” – so if God can do that – why on earth would I sit in a room week after week and rehash my bad points?

    Life is too short for that – do what you have to do to recover – and get out and enjoy the life that God gave you and smell the roses.

  113. Sarahvshermind says:

    I went to AA years ago in Brooklyn, Williamsburg, so Hipster Heaven. It was my first time after a blackout night that left me scared shitless. Regargless, it was a room full of beautiful people and it was intimidating. They had a god damn cigarette break during an hr meeting and I felt so uncomfortable, that I went up to the girl that seconds earlier had said “if anyone needs a sponsor”. I was far from ready from a sponsor but felt so uncomfortable. Anyway, my sponsor was a fanatic that had never been addicted to alcohol; only pot. She meant well and took me out for dinner with her friends, but they bombarded me with information and the rules of AA. It felt so reckless to give an alcoholic someone with a pot addiction. Has pot ever made you black out and wake up on the streets of Brooklyn with no money, or metro card in a super unsafe neighborhood wondering if you were raped? And then the cops wouldn’t even help you find the subway because “you don’t have id”. And that’s not my bottom. Sorry… I feel so bad for putting down someone else’s addiction, similar to how I’m sure many of us have felt when we talk to a heroin addict that can’t believe we have tried basically all drugs including their’s, but we got addicted to alcohol. To each his own, but in an organization that’s large focus is leaning on each other, I really needed someone I could relate to. Since then, I have been to some okay meetings, particularly the meditation ones. And I try to remind myself that I am in NYC so the majority of people are intelligent and seem like they really care about their recovery.

    As a child, my alcoholic mother was too cheap or lazy to get a baby sitter and I would have to sit in a smoke filled room with people telling their horror stories. I was an eight year old girl and almost always, there would be a nasty old red faced man that would call me pretty or worse. That was the 90’s in rural DE. But it reminds me that I am lucky to be in NY. I can only imagine what some meetings are like in much smaller places in this country.

    AA has saved millions. It has also made a ton of people uncomfortable on many levels. Kyria’s article may seem harsh, but I relate to it on so many levels. We are not powerless to alcohol. We have become powerless at controlling our fucked up brains.

  114. Jamie says:

    Keep coming :)

  115. Laura says:

    I’ve enjoyed this banter and for me AA almost derailed my success. I got up one morning and said that’s it I’m done but wanted to see if AA would help further my success. There are some valid points but to follow this thinking (cult comes to mind) in the year 2014 is just plain silly. When my sponsor gave me an ultimatum of doing step 5 with her or she would no longer be my sponsor and I was set to fail was the straw for me. Step 5 can be done we anyone you choose and she was so messed up and should not have been a sponsor. She needs more help than what AA can provide. The “f” word…fail…pissed me off, why would someone set a newbie up for failure by telling them they will fail if you don’t follow the program to the letter. That’s BS.

    Alcoholism is NOT a disease….it’s a CHOICE. Do you think a 7 year old girl that gets leukemia chooses to go to the leukemia store and by a bottle of the disease? No….that’s a disease drinking is a choice. In all my time of sitting and listening at meetings not one person said this guy held a gun to my head and forced me to drink. It’s a CHOICE. I did notice that all the people that so falsely appeared to be genuinely concerned about my success have stopped calling. I really didn’t want to hang out with them any way because all they do is talk about alcohol…..JUST DONT DRINK….it’s that simple. Think about something else, read a book, volunteer, play with your kids, just shut up about being a drunk and you’ll probably do much better. If you can’t moderate it…don’t drink it. Yes it’s that simple. I don’t think these folks are capable of a normal life they think and talk about drinking, war stories, nothing positive. The meetings were a drag when people would blame their mom coming to visit and it was her fault I drank. WRONG SADDLE BREATH…responsibility falls to you. However, I was raised by parents who taught me you can do anything you put your mind to and each person possesses the inner power to accomplish anything.

  116. CC VanCity says:

    Laura I’m with you 100%. Its the constant BS that turns me off from AA. Its all propaganda from 1939!!!!! Science and facts are always updated… But noooooo AA knows best

  117. CC VanCity says:

    The shunning of science, research, and facts and never changing AA = RELIGIOUS CULT

  118. How sweet. Such an eloquent, insightful and classy piece of writing.

  119. Much of what you say is true. I attended AA for many years, on and off. I finally left for good when I realized that 90% of the people there were just repeating things they heard in the rooms without determining for themselves whether or not there was any validity in what they were saying. I see the same phenomenon on Facebook. People re-post things without examining them for a shred of truth. With such easy access to Google and Snopes, there is no excuse for these. I have come to the conclusion that many people are just plain lazy.

    AA works for many people, but those are not people I want to hang around. I have never seen one case of emotional sobriety in the rooms and I started attending AA at the tender age of 16. I am now 43 and sober without AA, NA or CA.

    I simply grew tired of not being in control of my own life when I was using. When I’m sober, I can think clearly and make better decisions. End of story.

    I think the author could have used less obscenity to get her point across, it was disgusting toward the end and I’m hard to offend. I’m a person who uses profanity often and eloquently. But in all honesty, that last paragraph made me want to vomit.

  120. Clara says:

    Pretty funny and wickedly inaccurate. I see a number of familiar blogger names, people who went to AA for decades and didn’t seem to realize that all they had to do was open the door and leave. If it isn’t for you, it isn’t for you. Find something else. Pretty simple, eh?

  121. Clara says:

    Let’s see…. The criticism is that overeaters anonymous says you can moderate. Alcoholics Anonymous says that you cannot. You need food to exist. You don’t physically need alcohol. I guess that must gave escaped you. AA isn’t for those that can moderate. It exists for those that gave lost that choice. If I could have moderated, I would have. But I wasn’t a problem drinker; I am an alcoholic.

  122. thearmbarkid says:

    Well, alcohol is made by your body and occurs naturally in your bloodstream, so technically you DO need it to exist. Sounds like some of you have some white chips to pick up after all…

  123. thearmbarkid says:

    “AA has saved millions.”

    Why do people continue to parrot this lie? It’s just a bullshit claim that no one has EVER been able to prove. Remember, AA doesn’t keep records of that sort of thing. However, by AA’s own admission, 95% of people who walk through the doors walk back out within a year!

  124. clara says:

    Big difference, armchair. I don’t need grand manier to live. Say, what’s this about pipebombs?

  125. Sobervt says:

    I’ve been sober going on a year now. I do think AA itself sucks. Having said that,
    it is my opinion and AA didn’t work for me. I won’t go into AA bashing. Suffice it to say there are a lot of things I especially do not like about it. I do think it a bit too cult like, putting it mildly.

    Comments about AA has saved millions may be true. We’ll probably never know how many AA saved or indirectly killed as some suggest. Somewhere there must be a higher power that does not want us to really know or think about that. But AA does work for some people, so hats off to them. If it works for them then fine.

    Just because AA didn’t work for me does not mean that there are not good people in it. There are. But I also don’t believe in a system that has to beat down a person with so much negativity.

    If 95% walk in and walk out of AA then count me as one of those in the 95% Of course we don’t know really if 95% is the actual percentage and what that percentage really represents in numbers IF AA doesn’t keep number, which from what I could see at meetings and group conscience meetings, they do very privately.

    For some reason a 30’s adaptation to a 20’s theme set to a theological premise applied with a totalitarian mindset ignoring and rejecting any current science or medical research or fact just does not work for me. And that is just me not everyone else. It was current science
    and medicine, spirituality and probably some luck that has saved me from cancer for the last 10 years. So it is hard to ignore those other aspects, at least for me. I believe God gave me a brain for me to use, and I use it to choose other routes than AA.

    An then there is all this talk and discussion/disagreement of “dry drunk”, he/she is or is not an alcoholic, whatever…

    I’ve always been one to take a drink. I’ve always liked a drink. It got out of control and I knew it. Whether it was my predisposition for alcohol, or other factors that I tried to bury with alcohol consumption, a not so great strategy by the way, or whatever it was, the fact remains that there was a problem and I had to deal with it and did. I will have to continue to deal with it for the rest of my life just like any other disease.

    So I had to ask myself, “At what point do I just get on with life?” That point was the evening I walked out the end of a very repressive feeling AA meeting, chopped my way through the cloud of cigarette and cigar smoke to my car, stuck a CD in the car player and sang all the way home.

    AA just isn’t my cup of tea.

  126. Billy S. says:

    I am a recovering alcoholic myself who went to AA for a time early in my recovery and quickly grew to hate being there. Partly because it was the same people every fucking meeting telling the same old fucking stories about getting drunk. Once you’ve heard the same story five times it gets kinda old. Another reason I left is because I smoke pot and wasn’t about to quit smoking it. To the drones at AA this was unacceptable, as to them I wasn’t “really getting sober” if I was still smoking pot. Uhhh… what? It’s called Alcoholics Anonymous not Abstinence From Everything. Didn’t care for their judgmental attitudes. If you’re a person who used to get drunk and fall down in the gutter and piss their pants without realizing it don’t fucking tell me smoking a little pot is some horrible evil sin. The people there are just closeminded assholes. I know myself better than anyone and I know that if I don’t smoke pot then I will DEFINITELY want a drink or five. Some people just need something to get them through the day. Some don’t. My mother was like that. She could never understand why anyone would smoke pot or get drunk or whatever and as much as I’ve tried to explain it to her she just doesn’t get it. That’s O.K. I’m not going to judge people who abstain from everything so it’s not their place to judge me. Everyone is different.

    I really feel sorry for the people who have convinced themselves that they have to go tell the same stories at AA every week (and most of them don’t just go once a week, no, they go every FUCKING NIGHT to different AA meetings all over the area.) That’s just sad. And it is like a cult. They have their own slogans, their own dogma that they substitute for critical thinking… It’s sick. I think there needs to be a recovery program for people obsessed with going to AA. Maybe a 12-step program, the first step being to admit that AA doesn’t work for everyone and that if you can get sober on your own then it isn’t because you weren’t a “real” alcoholic but rather were an alcoholic with MORE WILLPOWER than the people who flock to AA meetings for support. I’m a big believer in whatever works, do it. If going to AA works for you then by all means go ahead. But don’t shove it down people’s throats as is so often done. People need to realize that it is most certainly NOT for everyone.

  127. Sobervt says:

    Hi Billy,

    Have you checked out SOS or SMART? You are right, listening to that crap over and over and over and…… give me a break. It sucks no doubt.

    I used to smoke pot but now it is my personal choice not to, but that is all. If you listen to what these people say it is all doom and gloom and you are a user and you are not sober and you are taking drugs and…and…and…. blahhh…. This is all while they are sucking down another hunk of tobacco, chewing down some more candy and guzzling some more sugar loaded caffeine.

    And I “love” the way they proceed to tell you how fucked up they are and then try to tell you what to do…. not just at the moment but with your life. Uhhhhh let me think about that for a second..thats long enough….

    I find the whole 12 step BS very caustic to a rational thinking person, and potentially very
    harmful.

    There seem to be a lot that just fall in line and accept the bull shit and la-de-da smile away.Reminds me of the old Frank Zappa song Flakes, one line goes, “I am a moron and this is my wife, she’s frosting a cake with a paper knife…” It seems to be that kind of mentality. If they like it they can keep it and keep it to themselves. And not that all aa ers should be painted with the same brush…. but look up 13th step. There seems to be a lot of predatory behavior. Google rape in the rooms etc. You can not assume aa to be a safe place at all… and I’m a guy…

    The other aspects are how medical research and funding and government has been infiltrated by this garbage and public policy decisions are being made based on this crap.

    Glad you got out. I’m no expert, but there are better ways and positive ways for you to help yourself, and not replace a chemical dependency with the dependency of that bs. I also stopped capitalizing aa. They don’t deserve it.

  128. luanne rene says:

    alittle raw and rough but not without reason. A A s been doing more harm then good for many years. and it stands to reason there s alot of people who dont appreciate the lies and failures to inform and the lives that have been lost because of A A and its outstanding ability to brainwash people at their weakest most vulnerable points. If A A were really about helping people theyd welcome informatiton and speakers representing new and improved programs and support groups and treatments. . . The fact AA doesnt even tolerate discussion of them should tell its members where its interests truly lie. it ll take many years but eventually a a will be a chapter in a quackery book where it belongs and not the “only” way . .. (absolutes themselves are telltale signs of bs why do you members so easily give up the ability to think and reason when you enter the rooms ? geez people you have a brain and a responsibility to use it )

  129. Floridot says:

    A.A. helped me.

  130. Ann Maria says:

    AMAZING ARTICLE… Packed with Facts that are brought to your audience with Delightful Humor!! I loved it ! Thanks for sharing the sick , disturbing truths about this Cult , while adding your magical touch of humor ! It truly helps us that were damaged or unfortunate victims of these sick ‘o steppers to be able to heal and eventually laugh it off as an Experience !!! Oh what an Experience ‘ …
    ((((((((((((((((((HILARIOUS ))))))))

    …FACT – AA steppers you read and LYAO toooooo!

  131. Mike says:

    Im an active member of AA. I read your whole article.
    Douchebag you got it all wrong. You dont have to sit and agree
    With it. The program works great for me. My last drink was
    Memorial Day 1987. You must have a resentment to make a whole
    Website about how you disagree with AA.
    P.S. does your gay lover insert a wine enema in your ass every nite?

  132. mike is gay says:

    AA doesn’t work for people. People get results from dedication and hard work. AA is just a guideline for people to follow. The garbage that is regurgitated from meeting to meeting is sickening… I know for a fact… Ppl talk from pretty crazy shit they learn from bill Wilson… Guy wasn’t even a doctor… He made shit up high on acid… And AA knows best cus it works the bill Wilson way… Talk some nonsense on acid… Threaten death if you don’t give in all power and focus to the cult… Boneheads I tell ya

  133. Anonymous says:

    That was the funniest thing I have ever read! Thank you for that. I feel like popping into a meeting to remind myself why I stay away from that place. AA DOES NOT work for everyone. I seriously can’t stand that place.

  134. Anonymous says:

    AA is down right dangerous for some people. It doesn’t empower people. It is for lonely people looking for people to hang out with. I have met some really heartless and deranged people at those meetings. The whole thing just creeps me out.

  135. Anonymous says:

    The moment I realized AA was much more than a quit drinking program was the moment I decided to leave. I am happy and healthy and so glad I left. It Was a complete waste of time and mindfuck. I don’t have a disease and I am not powerless. You are what you believe. That place is a joke.

  136. Sobervt says:

    Gee Mike, If aa is soooooo wonderful, what brings you to this site? Starting to realize that after 27 years maybe there is another way? Maybe just a little bit?

    The fact is that aa does not work for about 95 % of people. Never has, never will. If you would like some real facts go get Lance Dodes (MD) new book, The Sober Truth. If you are one of the “lucky” 5 out of 100 that benefit somehow from aa then good for you, more to you.

    But if you have a problem with this web site, after all it is a “whole web site” I guess as opposed to a partial web site, you may want to check out one of the many, many aa oriented web sites that darken the internet’s doorstep.

    Cheers!

  137. BLAHBLAH says:

    WOW! This was very refreshing to read. I’m 27 and have been drinking pretty hard for most of my adult life. Well, me and the wifey decided to split and she blamed it on my drinking. I moved out and decided that it was time for a change. I mean, why not quit drinking? It’s healthier for me. SO I went to one AA class that my dad found at a local church(No this wasn’t my first time, I’ve had a DWI 7 years ago and went to NA before). Anyway, I saw through all the Bullshit on my first day which was last Friday. I haven’t drank since! I’m an atheist and in no way can I participate in such bullshit every week. They all say they are weak and need god. UMM how about you give yourself more credit? You are capable of anything you want, without anyone else. I drank almost every day since I was 18(joined military and went straight to shits creek)and have stopped now for over a week and have no feeling what-so-ever of drinking any time soon. So fuck AA and fuck those retards that go to it. Be a Man/Women and get over your loser mentality and fix yourself, stupid!

  138. Toby says:

    I am currently in AA and I’ve seen some pretty uncomfortable things while I’ve been in there. One example is I saw a guy confess to the AA group that he lost his job because he decided to “get honest” and tell his boss he was an alcoholic (all because the book told him to do that). I actually felt really bad for the guy, but could do nothing to help him really because I think he’s already fucked his life by listening to all the brainwashing. Plus, the group has this whole thing where they can take absolutely no blame for fucking other peoples lives, which I think is one of the most fucked up things. I do think AA is very dangerous. I’ve never actually experienced anything so fucked up in my life actually.

    One thing I do disagree with that the author of this article said is that a person can drink again after a period of sobriety or whatever. There are people out there that, once they start again, they can’t stop. Not that one shot of gin will send you headlong back into alcoholism, but avoiding alcohol would be the best option. I do agree that a lifetime of AA is one of the worst things any person would have to endure though.

  139. Believer says:

    Sounds like you had an awful experience in AA. And for that I am sorry. AA has been changes lives of alcoholics and addicts since the Oxford group. The prof that it works is right there. I would urge you to please be careful about your opinion . You could intimately stop someone from coming to their first meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous and they could miss out on sobriety. Alcoholics are generally assholes… Working the 12 steps are our way of not being assholes anymore.
    You want to call it a cult, that’s fine. I’ll drink the coolaid ! If the coolaid will keep me sober and help me to be a functioning human being.

  140. pep says:

    Keep coming

  141. Pepe le Pew says:

    I’m not an alcoholic. Heck I don’t even like to drink. However, I’m a regular AA member. I even secretary their meetings. I joined AA when I was in college so I have 12 years of sobriety now. I learned that by pretending I’m an alcoholic in recovery I can date women in AA. One of the woman I dated in AA was married to a rich guy. She divorced him and dated me because he’s a “normy”. Only alcoholics in recovery can understand one’s another. She stuffed my pocket with green when we were together. Later I learned that she also slept with other men in AA. When you have girlfriend or wife is AA there is no such thing as monogamy. I hear countless stories of sponsor sleeping with sponsee wife and sponsee sleeping with sponsor wife. Life in AA is like a circus. AA is a sex cult. It has nothing to do with quit drinking alcohol. You either like it or leave it. Personally I like it because I like free pussies. If you don’t believe me then join an AA group near where you live for a year to see for yourself. I am not bullshitting.

  142. Rhetorics Anonymous says:

    A.A – Your new dysfunctional family……

  143. Anonymous says:

    Your a fucking douch bag

  144. Dildo says:

    AA is Bulls££t for suckers

  145. Gilbert says:

    If you ever get to the point where when you drink it’s like turning on a faucet and then breaking off the handle and you can’t stop yourself for any reason THEN you might want to hang out in AA, otherwise fuck off and have a good time sunshine 😉

  146. Andrea says:

    this article is hilarious. I wasted almost 4 years of my life in NA and AA, and in the end I found it quite harmful. Its really too bad that no one told me of any alternative ways to quit using dope and alcohol. I would honestly rather be a washed up junky than be in a cult, but the funny thing is that after leaving AA/NA I am much happier and leading a productive life while moderating my use of alcohol and other chemicals. and before anyone says “WELL UR NOT A REAL ADDICT MERP DERP”, I have been to rehab twice and used to do heroin every day, so go fuck yourselves :)

  147. Anton Fishburne says:

    I only learned one thing from reading part of this before I couldn’t take the idiocy anymore: Kyria Abrahams is a fucking moron. I have my own criticisms of AA and it didn’t work for me personally but I know a lot of people that it helps and when I do choose to criticize or critique something, I don’t just slander and spout out dribble and four-letter words. I can actually piece together an articulate, meaningful viewpoint that is open to others’ interpretations.

    This post is a joke and a half. And like someone pointed out, the medical establishment does now consider addiction a disease, as if to say it wasn’t already known that alcoholics possess in their liver a unique enzyme that non-alcoholics do not have which processes alcohol differently and allows for the individual to drink copious amounts that would kill most people and gain immense tolerance quickly. I could even tell you that it’s approximately 12% of the population who have the unique physiology to be or become an addict. Yes, it is partly science and physiology and yes, it is a disease. Whether you believe in AA or not. So Kyria Abrahams, you are the one who needs to check your facts and fuck off.

  148. AA Escapee says:

    I am so stoked that I came across this! I’ve become ultra weary of the lack of independent thinking in AA. It is a misogynistic boys’ club. For 11 years I went in and out, in and out of those God forsaken rooms feeling guilty every time I came back, and having thought about the pain of later having to return to those rooms every time I went out and drank. Over the past 5 years I’ve begun to reject the ideas of AA (while still attending meetings). I started Cognitive Behavioral Therapy and have been working on my self-confidence and independence which is not something that is promoted in AA. AA wreaks of helpless victims. I am not a victim. I’m not even an alcoholic for fuck’s sake! I am a severely depressed woman who’s experienced adverse situations throughout her entire life who happened to use alcohol to cope. On that note I’ve also used drugs, food, sex, cleaning, massive amounts of TV watching, random acts of troublemaking, skin picking, sleeping, and various other obsessions to cope. Some of those things are normal positive things that I turned into negatives.

    11 years in AA to no avail, 4 months of CBT and balanced meds and I feel like a million bucks! I feel empowered! I feel liberated! I feel completely intellectually independent! No more crazy assholes who replaced one obsession with another telling me to do 90 in 90, or write a 4th and spill my guts to them with the 5th (I don’t fucking know you people!), no more being drooled over by loser 13th steppers, no more telling me what I can and can’t do in the first 30, 60, 90, 6 mos, 9 mos, 1 year… I am a fucking mother! I am responsible for a total of 3 human beings! And some fucking random sick fuck is going to tell me how to run my life? Would you like to pay my bills and babysit too?! There are plenty of good people in AA and there’s a lot of good that can come from it, but at some point people need to take responsibility for themselves and their actions and stop acting like victims under the guise of a “disease”. What doesn’t make sense to me is that alcoholism is referred to as a disease in AA, but the act of drinking is just a symptom. So anyone can be an alcoholic even if they’ve never taken a drink? Whaaaaaaa? Me no understand. Sounds like an excuse to me. So if we don’t drink and we’re still fucking up in other ways we aren’t responsible because we’ve self-diagnosed and stated that we are “alcoholics”? Cop. Out.

    My breaking point came when my sponsor told me to do 90 in 90. While looking for work. And attending school. And hustling for money when I can if only to simply keep a roof over our heads and nothing more. All with two young children in tow. While my sponsor sits in her multi-million dollar home on the water. Paid for by her husband. Who tells her what to wear, how to keep her hair, and to stay thin. And that’s her only job since she hasn’t had to work for the past 10 years. And has no children, no one to attend to but herself. But she wants to run my life. I thought 4 meetings a week and a commitment at one was pretty good. Yes, I’m being judgmental, because believe it or not, human survival depends on constant and continuous judgments. I’m done dragging myself to meetings and I’m certainly done dragging my children along. I am enjoying being a part of the rest of society where modern medicine and scientific fact prevails and is ever expanding. I got sober in order to be free, not to be enslaved.

  149. Anonymous says:

    a\

  150. Bradford says:

    This article was sweet. And fucking funny. Coming from another ex-AA member. You rule. Also, these pissed off comments are funny as fuck too. You guys all sound like those culty dogmatic fucks in duh rooooomz. Suck balls, Bill.

  151. Antny says:

    The Big Book of AA says that it does not have a monopoly on getting sober, but if people find that they cannot do it on their own, the program believes it has a solution. Basically, the book itself says that AA is only one option. That’s why I don’t understand how some people get so pissed off about AA. Nobody forces them to go and nobody will ever force them to go. People are free to come and go as they please.

    I could see how somebody would be pissed off at some of the people in AA groups. Some people are very annoying with the stuff they say. In my experience, I find that because the groups are proclaimed as being autonomous as one of the 12 traditions, different groups have different styles/culture. Some groups are very culty and annoying. Others do things how they were originally intended, by simply going through the book and working steps. I prefer the groups that simply go through the book and work the steps. It takes a lot of “opinions” and people’s ideas out of the equation.

    There are a lot of idiots in AA. It is important to find the right groups though and stay away from the creepy groups. Also, as for NA, that place is a shitshow. If somebody is going to consider going to a group, go to AA. NA is the worst.

  152. yerp says:

    okay you got some points. what you wrote is kind of funny.

    but on the real. i went out with this lady at my meeting a couple of times. the 2nd night we went out she tried to pick a fight with the cook at the diner/coffee shop we were at, and about 5 hours later she kept trying to get into the argument with the guy and tell his manager. saying things like “he’s not sober” “i don’t care” all the while the guy is saying you can’t talk to me like that b/c she’s trying to say he’s drunk. then she’s like “you can’t talk to ME like that” anyway really awkward as i have about 8 months clean… so the next time we go out she starts talking about more crazy stuff like drones and wanting to get back with her ex husband.

    i tell her i’ve never been in a serious relationship b/c i have been a drunk and addict all my life so they have never lasted longer than 2 weeks. well she keeps talking crazy and this is really late night like 4-5 AM. like i really need to sleep for work and staying sober. so i tell her “i can’t do this” anymore.

    we see each other at the meetings and now i think her crazy is wearing off b/c i think she’s trying to get me to stop coming to the meeting. she won’t say anything anymore but if i’m just paranoid w/e but if she REALLY is trying to spread lies and stuff i’m fucked. i barely got my brains back now i have to deal with this. AA–

  153. oddnes says:

    Antny – and the bible says burning bushes talk… it is still bullshit. who cares what the Big Book says, what matters is how these groups function in reality. I do not care about what your scriptures say. And nobody should.

    Yerp – the only good AA slogan is as follows, it is in regards to dating in the “Program”:

    “The odds are good, but the goods are odd.”

    Get out before you really get damaged by those freaks.

  154. Yomama says:

    aa talks about powerlessness in the beginning fools, it’s also said we do recover from a hopeless state of mind and body. If you haven’t worked all 12 steps with a sponsor, you haven’t “done aa”. And if you have and still hate it, you either weren’t thorough or you aren’t a real alcoholic like I am. Most of you judge mental fucks don’t have a clue what your talking about

  155. karen parker says:

    yomomma

    i have worked all 12 more times than i care to count, with more than one sponsor , for decades. i am , a real alkie. i have ” done AA “. i was born into, raised in, married in, had children and grandchildren while in, this CULT.
    the fact it, women are killed , raped, abused and children molested in AA . AA does NOTHING about this nor assumes responsibility for it. the effects of growing up in this CULT are long term PTSD and other twitches. i do, know what i am talking about. my experience is first hand , i am not powerless, and the hope i now have, was earned from having the courage to leave the cult and practice telling others of just how dangerous it is. yes, i do have a clue and i do know what i am talking about.
    go ahead now, judge me like only a stepper would…..
    good article. read it with my first cup. xx

  156. jamey from AKRON says:

    omG awesome fucking article, i laughed all the way through, its all so true. i just spent the last 5 months of my life in the AA cult, thank GOD i opened my eyes and avoided being a submissive fucktard the rest of my life. here in AKRON AA was founded by the ass-doctor bob and that nancy boy bill wilson. omG i was in the heart of the lions den!!! im deprogramming myself now and i see the program for what it really is, a dangerous cult encouraging people to be self defeating and weak. how charming! leaving the cult, ive spent hours researching the “scientific” aspects of it and the mechanics of the program, as well the history and fucked up psycobabble that spewed from the ass doctor bob and nancyboy bill wilson. its compelling. i feel free and a huge weight feels lifted. but, like a fresh wound, i look back at how they preyed on me when i was weak to make me weaker, and it stings that i almost gave up my soul to the heretical organization it truly is. alas, i take comfort in the fact i will spend no more countless hours listening to a total loser spew out a viciously long monologue.

  157. Louis says:

    Ok then. Lots of opinions not too many facts my dear. Here are a few incontrovertible facts for you and your readers. I have been going to AA for over 30 years. Fact. I have three wonderful grown children with good educations and jobs who I love and love me. Fact. I have a loving wife of 35 years who I love more with each passing day. Fact. I go to AA meetings 6 days a week when possible. It’s almost always possible. Fact. I live in the home of my dreams, drive the car of my dreams and just spent a year traveling around the world. Fact. By your why of thinking AA has hurt me and I should shutter to think where I mite have gotten if not for such a wast of time. AA was not a wast of time. Little over 30 years ago I wanted to die because I could not stop drinking and drugging thereby hurting myself and everything I valued in my life. I tried everything I knew or could have hoped to stop me from self destructions and nothing worked. I had the money and could have brought sobrity if it were for sale. A life well lived is not for sale. My life did not turn around until I found AA that gave me a faith and a path that worked. I learned how to pack the stream of life with what really mattered. With all that said I would just like to pose a question. What if I heard you 30 years ago and listened to your opinions? I would be dead. Three wonderful beings would not me born. My wife would not have had a husband all thoes years. I would have never traveled and met so many wonderful people and would have never seen and and come to love everything a saw. What if your words took all that away from me? So if you knew your words had the power of life and death, would you change your tone, would your words be diffrent? Where would the facts lie now?
    Hoping this has found you well and in great spirit

  158. AA High Priest says:

    I think by the tone of the article that you are a dry drunk even if you do not drink now. Better go back to AA 😉

  159. john29302 says:

    laffed my ass off! funny article. I have been tried in aa kangaroo courts as if I could be one of those aa depraved sick fucks for not drinking the kool aid. and with certainty i can say they beat on you for any dissent until you get sicker or strong enuff to get the hell out. aa has no message! it has a group conscience that forms at meetings but there is no aa message get over it. there is not a lot they swear is there its all buncha verbosage used by stupe mongers that swear off all of lifes pleasures and then fight to stay sober with puritanical nonsense that ends you up in dire straights with the loonies there. its almost like a devised criminal gang that gets there jollies off tellin others what to do. utter nonsense the lot.

  160. FattyZ says:

    Good stuff. The guy above who says AA is so great and he has all this money and travels the world? 1% at best. I was in the CULT 20 years and now mostly out for 10, I know what the fuck. He says he goes 6 meetings a week and has money a family and a normal life? No. If I had ever met anyone like him I would have had him for a sponsor and I would have found out in spite of what he said he had things seriously wrong with him. They all do. Mostly trauma/sexual abuse survivors. Alcohol and drugs are symptoms. Take away the symptoms and you have a group of trauma/sexual abuse survivors UNTREATED. What kind of stuff goes on in a group like that do you think? You guessed it. I’d LOL but it’s not really funny as this bullshit is totally institutionalized.

  161. Robin says:

    Thank you!! That was hilarious and so true! Gosh, I really needed to read that today. Nine months sober, contemplating trying to have a drink, and moderate, but I am feeling pretty good (no AA anymore, and I barely attended this past few months), and really do not have the desire. I just want a balanced life. I have much better coping skills now, and am trying to get to the heart of my issues so I won’t drink over them.

    Thank you, again! How is everything going with you today? I stumbled on this article, and I saw it was a few years back. So, I am not sure you will even read this comment. Are you sober or moderate? Just curious and with the best intentions. I hope you are doing great!

    Best wishes!

  162. Only the Truth says:

    This is SO TRUE. I’ve been sober nearly 20 years now. Got my start in AA, but left after a few years. As my therapist put it, a healthy person simply doesn’t want to spend 6 nights a week talking about a problem they don’t have anymore.

    So for a long time I thought people were crazy when they called AA a cult. After all, I left, was still sober, doing fine, successful job, family, all that…and no one chased me down the street calling me a dry drunk. Yeah most of my AA friends stopped calling but that was to be expected. I stayed friends with a few people though.

    Then the other day I was having lunch with a friend (a normie as AA calls anyone who isn’t in the program) and noticed a group of AA people sitting a few tables over. OMG it was just bizarre. They were pointing at me and obviously gossiping and shushing each other. I was like, what? I mentioned this later to one of the AA people I still count as a friend and she was like, yeah, well I don’t feel that way. What way, I asked. So she explains that I’m quite the item of discussion among some, who feel that by me living my life I am hurting AA. I’m not a dry drunk. I’m selfish, because I took the gift of the program and am not giving back by living the AA way of life (that’s what they do call it, it’s not a support group, it’s a way of life). And they talk about me because of that. Whoa! Really!

    So yeah. It’s a cult.

  163. jessek says:

    It ain’t that big one way or the other. I’ve got 11.5 years now. I took my first cake and after about 15 months I stopped attending meetings and I haven’t gone for years now. There are things about AA and the meetings that I don’t like. My brother in law who has double the sober time I do also doesn’t go to meetings.
    The people in the meetings are self-absorbed like all addicts. Actually narcotics was a much bigger addiction for me then booze.
    Your writing style is puerile and you are — you really suck as a writer. You’re childish in the extreme. That takes away from your message.

  164. Jack says:

    Interesting comments. 26 years sober, family raised, marriage still good, all poster child accomplishments from AA. It is kind of a cult, more like a religion than not. Don’t go to many meetings and agree it’s hard to spend time discussing a problem I no longer have.
    On the other hand, I am really grateful I did this.
    Since these threads go back a few years, I’d really be interested in knowing where many of these people have turned up? Really smart people tend to fall the farthest.

  165. crispy says:

    Jack, go fuck yourself. I’m really smart, stayed sober, and learned enough to get away from the cult-worshiping morons that Kyria describes in the article. I’ve been to a lot of meetings, and the overwhelming majority of people I met were low-bottom drunks, who crawled into the rooms with their kidneys and livers hanging out their assholes. Most of them were people who had serious emotional/social problems that they developed over decades of guzzling booze. I ended my drinking career when I was 25, and I stopped. I wasted 2 years in AA, dealing with passive aggressive, vindictive selfish idiots before I had enough and walked away. The program isn’t for high-functioning alcoholics with lives outside of the rooms. It’s a program for morons. The jerkoff that can’t hold onto a job because he flips out on his co-workers like a baby when something doesn’t go his–that’s AA. The self-absorbed, ex-prom queen who sabotages every good thing that has ever happened to her in her life and drinks herself into oblivion until she’s 40–that’s AA. The old-timer who got sober during AA’s supposed golden age “when people did the steps BY THE BOOK,” and who is too narcissistic to realize that he’s an oblivious, condescending asshole–that’s AA. The point is that I left the rooms because the people in it were so dysfunctional that I pulled my head out of my ass and realized that none of them had what I wanted. And I wasn’t holding them to a perfect standard. I was holding them to the standard that I use to judge my non-AA friends. The program is filled with miserable failures–i.e., people that are so dysfunctional, I would never invite them to play any role in my life whatsoever if I were to meet them in any other setting besides AA. I figured out that what I really wanted was to meet and to develop relationships with people that were at my level. To make a long story short, I left AA, and I did.

  166. Jack says:

    Crispy- good for you. Happy you are a self-made man.

  167. crispy says:

    A lot of people helped to get me to where I am now–therapist, friends, and family. But AA…wow…at best, AAs are just broken people. At worst, they’re hideous human beings who will hurt you. Somewhere between those two extremes is a very VERY small minority of alcoholics in the rooms who act like sensible decent people. I have the same character defects as any alcoholic, but you wouldn’t judge it from my behavior because (1) I’m aware of those flaws and (2) I was taught/learned to manage them. Yeah, (1) and (2) didn’t result from AA.

    No…AA is a protective womb for people who can’t hack it in real life. It’s its own little world really–just morons sitting in folding chairs soliloquizing 12-step nonsense and keeping one another company. It’s fucking pathetic. “But look at our [fake, insincere] smiles! Why, do you want what we have?! Well, do ya?” hahaha, ahhhh Jesus fucking Christ. Things you will get out of AA: superficial fair-weather friends, a lot of drama, very basic skills for managing problems in your life. If you want more than that, go somewhere else.

  168. crispy says:

    On the other hand, fuck it. If you’re reading this, go to AA. See what you’re missing. And if you’re not an alcoholic, I’d strongly encourage you to go. Part of the reason this organization survives is because people don’t see what the program and meetings are really like. All you hear are the bullshit success stories. If you’re a “normie” (that’s the word AAs have invented to describe, you know, everyone else in the world other than alcoholics), I challenge you to go everyday for 3 months. Oh, the things you’ll see and hear.

  169. Thank you says:

    Thank you for this article, it was spot on. I agree with some other posters here that AA is damaging; its message is offensive to the core of a person. To tell people that they are powerless and they need a higher power to do their lives because they cannot do it themselves, is the biggest insult to the human spirit. Especially addicts need to be told that they do have power, and that they can do their own lives themselves. A message of empowerment would go so much further than a message of weakness. What I hated most about AA, is the way that program is so hellbent on shaming people for what they have done, and requiring of them that they take responsibility for their lives – even things that are not their faults – while not offering them any of the credit. It’s your higher power that got you sober and keeps you sober – but you are to blame for everything bad in your life that has ever happened to you, and everything wrong in your life is your fault. It’s fine and healthy to expect people to take responsibility for their lives, but to take the credit from them for what they did right? How sad. AA members have to shoulder the blame for what they did wrong, without getting to take any of the credit for what they did right. AA bases its program on fear-mongering (if you don’t do the steps and get a sponsor and go to a meeting every day you will relapse) and shaming (you are an alcoholic/addict and fucked up so much in your life, now you must turn to god or you will relapse because you are powerless and can’t manage your life, you weak little addict you.)

    I also hate the “reasoning” that says: “AA works if you work it.” So if AA does not work for you, it means that you did not REALLY work it. For anyone that the program does not work for, AA members just say “Oh, he didn’t really do it though.” Even if the guy had a sponsor, went to a meeting every day for years, and worked the steps 10 times over, if he relapsed then he didn’t REALLY do the program.

    That tautology can never be disproven. The AA program, that pushes humility as such a core principle, has members so arrogant they believe they can guess as to people’s real intentions and real efforts. They tell their members who have failed and go back to meetings after a relapse that this time, that person should really try and truly work the program. How cruel. To tell their own members, who struggled and worked for years but relapsed, that they did not really try, and that is why they failed, is so much meaner than I can express. Way to discount your own members, AA.

    This program is damaging. That is why people push back so hard. Just because their intentions may be good (although, unlike AA members, I will not be so arrogant as to think I can guess at people’s real intentions) does not mean that the behaviors, actions, and results are good.

    And it is exactly like Kyria said: AA does not help people get sober, it’s just that the only people left dedicated to AA happen to be sober people. So the myths get reinforced….

    I support the alternatives, and I blame professionals in the sobriety industry across the U.S. for a lot of the pushback. AA members naturally push AA, but the problem is that a lot of therapists and rehab centers push AA to the exclusion of other options. With an educational background in addiction treatment, these professionals give an impression of being experts, and so when they push therapy clients or rehab clients into AA without fully discussing and giving merit to alternative programs, they are doing a huge disservice to addicts in a delicate state. They make it sound like AA is really the only option, or the only viable one, and because addicts are in a state of desperation, or at least at a very low and vulnerable point, they feel like they have to do that program if they want to be sober. This is extremely unprofessional and detrimental, and professionals across the U.S. need to stop encouraging AA participation and start encouraging the alternatives far more.

  170. Mister bob says:

    AA is a terrible place to be and the 12 steps are even worse. I’ve been to meetings where I’ve seen alcoholics/addicts on the brink of death and in a little less than a year are healthy, employed, and helping others. Then I’ve seen a homeless man picked off the street now he has a job and has reconnected with his kids. What a terrible place to go

  171. Gay Irish-American Drunk says:

    AA is horrible – I tried for 10 years to get sober in AA when I was in my 20s. Finally at 31 I got sober on my own, with the help of a psychotherapist/social worker. There’s so many things wrong with AA but I will say just this… I endured speakers making negative comments and gay jokes at nearly every meeting by more than 1 speaker. As a gay man who just wanted help to get sober – I was really dumbstruck about this. That no one had the balls (me as well) to stand up and say… “gay folks get enough shit in this culture and if there’s any lgbt people at this meeting … I want them to know they’re welcome – and you should keep that shit to yourself!” I’ll never attend another AA meeting again, nor will I ever step foot in a Catholic/Christian church.

  172. Silly Rabbit says:

    I went into a A.A. meeting and made up a good story..
    You see, its all about story-telling and interjecting small quotes from the A.A. “Big Book”….
    On my last “Court Mandated” day… I did a quick 3-minute fictional storytelling about personal recovery—- and I finished with “She who stands in the shower..” followed by a thoughtful pause and concluded with, “She will get wet.” … OMG, everyone bought this made-up story and clapped. (I still laugh about this) Shit… Funny example of validation by anecdotal evidence…. I wondered if some A.A. people penned that comment in their personal “Big book” for inspiration. I was court-ordered, completed my stint and left those “90 meetings in 90 days, Get a Sponsor. Read the Big Book. Get Numbers. Go to meetings, Go to meetings and Go to meetings,” wierdness…. I heard these, but the cultiness bothered me, so I was quick in and quick out and I do agree, yes, A.A. is moronic.

  173. Not Stupid says:

    I love this! I am really irritable right now, and this felt really good to read! At the table next to me, two people are reading the Big Book loudly to each other. It makes me crazy because I just came from a SMART Recovery meeting, where scientific results and theory are valued.

    It’s amazing how many people have commented on this by saying, “But my friend got better with AA!” or some other dumb statement about how one person defied what is written in this totally awesome rant. I wish people were more educated about and more aware of the scientific method. People need to understand the difference between an anecdote and population statistics (and the importance of controlling variables and placebo effect, I could go on and on…).

    In my head, I compare AA to Santa Claus or Tinkerbell – people need to ‘believe’ (and blindly worship) for these magical entities to thrive. AA is just that. People in AA get so defensive when I say AA is not for me – like everyone needs to buy it and it needs to be the answer for everyone in order for it to work. I’m not explaining it well, but AA is basically this thing that wouldn’t exist if people would lift the veil of stupidity and actually think about what it really is. Maybe if we believe enough, AA will work. Well, that’s just it – I’m not stupid enough to believe in magic bullshit.

  174. Right On says:

    I absolutely love this and on a personal level, I couldn’t have read it at a better time. Twenty years ago I put myself in rehab at the age of nineteen and of course had to attend a ton of AA meetings. I got exactly what you got from it, was told the exact same things, fed the same bullshit. I finally realized that I had to get out and run as far away from it as possible. I blossomed as a person so to speak when I left. I actually started having real self esteem, the ridiculous fears I had allowed myself to accept in AA faded, I started having fun again in life and went on to build a career I loved, eventually starting my own business. I only give this background info because I was pitiful in AA, it shot down self reliance and despite the fact that I was constantly thinking it was all bullshit, I apparently had internal issues about myself that AA seemed to feed off of and make worse. The self hatred never got better and the slippery slope of hell they set you up for makes for an unbearably negative life. With all that said, I’m 43 now and haven’t had the best couple of years. My generally intellectual and extremely positive approach to life seemed to be dwindling. Yes, big stuff happened one after the other, cancer, divorce, custody battle with an Ex that is a lying sociopath, being physically disabled, yada yada yada. So, maybe I started getting whiny about not being this invincible, ever strong as nails, can make anything happen if I want to chic. And, started drinking more and more for the first time in years. And, not the happy drinker, the moan and groan angry drinker. Got a DUI, could lose my kids which would destroy me, so Very Grudgingly went to a fucking AA meeting, wondering if maybe some of their bullshit is true. Oh So Wrong. It brought it all back and I got shit faced the next day. All of those fucking slogans and shit were swimming in my head literally. Anyway, I do think it’s extremely detrimental to people that AA insists you are Powerless over alcohol. If your life is “unmanageable”, i.e. you are fucking things up by drinking too much and ignoring the important things, then the best thing to realize is that you do have power over alcohol (choose to drink or don’t) and your attitude towards life and your problems. My attitude has been shit, I realize that, and going back to AA for help with getting my life on a positive track was a nightmare. But, I learned from it, I learned exactly what I did twenty years ago. I am going to look into SMART and stop whining about my mid life crisis deal or whatever the fuck it is. I’ve picked myself up by the boot straps many times and pulled myself out of self absorbed, depressive funks and started really living again. So, yeah, fuck you once again AA,I got this.

  175. KDub says:

    Great Read. I couldn’t agree more. If you really want to stop drinking look into the Sinclair Method. It really works. Thanks for the laughs, I loved the article.

  176. GregoryVallejo says:

    The thing I have noticed in AA is that those who pursue it are never angry little potty mouths like this “writer”. AA teaches you a lot about yourself, and having a chip on your shoulder is a clear sign that there is work to be done. If AA doesn’t work for you then find something that does or just continue to be an obnoxious git.

  177. Super Cider says:

    Oh, my, this has been a popular article going on 3+ years or so? I don’t have time to read all of the responses so I’m just responding to the feature article.

    You are absolutely right and I enjoyed the colourful language.

    I’ve never been much of a drinker and can use one hand to count the number of times that I’ve used drugs. But I was, and still am a bit, batshit crazy 😜 and spent over 3 years in a mental institution. Many of my fellow inmates had been alcohol 🍷 and/or drug abusers and so a portion of our days were spent in AA or NA or other anonymous meetings, at least twice a day. Attendance wasn’t part of my care plan so I was under no obligation to go, but it was something to do. It’s so easy to isolate yourself even in a crowd of 300 and you get so tired 😴 of being alone sometimes. And there were new people coming in daily. New stories. New attractive women. So I spent about 3 years going to “anonymous” meetings twice a day. I wasn’t insane, I just had mental issues and I wasn’t able to care for myself. So I think that I was able to get a good, unbiased look at portions of AA and form some valid opinions.

    I realize that the meetings that I attended were different than those on the outside. 80-💯 people in a large auditorium, the majority forced to attend (some court-ordered) and the majority being inside, not having to deal with the natural daily grind. We did have maybe 20 “outsiders” at each meeting.

    I’ve been out of the hospital for 14 years now and I’ve been critical of AA anytime the subject has come up. I didn’t experience AA in a normal setting and I’m not addicted to anything. I was also mentally ill, which most people use as the primary reason to be dismissive of any of my opinions.

    Yeah, I’m making certain that I emphasize the many reasons that I might be unqualified to have an opinion. But during my last 8 months of hospitalization those of us wrestling with social anxieties and were almost ready to move back into the community were taken out and we’d end each day at an outside AA/NA meeting. That’s where I became familiar with the smaller rooms with the overpowering smells of coffee ☕️ and cigarettes (I think that there were smoke-free meetings back then; maybe they’re all smoke-free now), the dozens of photocopied signs about the (crap, I’m not going to repeat them!) and the repetitive Order of the Mass that AA follows.

    There are so many things that bother me about AA but I’ll only mention a few. The higher power stuff (a door knob? Seriously?) which the entire program is based upon, the cult-like status of the program and the lack of appeal to anyone who might have completed 6th grade. It is a program for morons, for those who are really, really good at surrendering because they have so very, very little to surrender. It also seemed to me that AA isn’t a recovery program and the program really doesn’t make that claim… once an alcoholic, etc. with the 30-year clean members still making at least one meeting a day because they saw AA as their higher power and surrendered to it, unable to find any kind of life outside of the program.

    I find it sad that there are people who are sober yet can’t find life outside of AA. Seeing the type of life that cult of AA offers would make me a drunk.

  178. Kevin says:

    Good article. I know there is a ton of controversy that can be pulled because of this article. Obviously, all almost 100 comments show that. I believe some of these comments may be deserved but I like the article because I can relate to some of things in this article a ton. After going to a sober living house ( http://www.carlavista.com ) I found that everyone is affected by addiction differently. With this being said, being sent to AA (have to go), or wanting to go, or attending a rehab clinic, or just a sober living house, everyone has their own story and different ways of looking at it mentally to help them get sober. So I recommend anyone that is giving it a go to look into a sober living house to try it out. I learned a lot about other people and addiction and now have been over two years sober.

  179. BlahBlahBlahYeahOkay says:

    I’m in AA.I was actually looking for AA bloggers and ended up here.

    The 12 steps have brought about a change in perspective about the way I see myself, my motives and my place in society. My thinking and my personality has profoundly shifted as a result.

    The suggested 12 step program of recovery, seems to no longer be AA’s message. The message now seems to be dont drink, go to meetings and call 5 people a day. Personally, if i could just stop i wouldn’t have a problem and there would be no need for me to go to meeting and even less of a need to call people to tell them, “Just don’t drink”.The suggested 12 step program of recovery and the social gathering that is an AA meeting are two different things.

    I wish it were more clear and AA did take more of a hard line and suppored it’s own fundamental basis of existence. Trying to be all things to all people and rolling out a red carpet of “take what you want”, “there’s no right or wrong way” is a setup to a lot of confusion.

    It makes sense (to me) that the AA meetings would be held to support and encourage one in practicing the 12 steps (thus creating a fellowship), but that is not the case, generally. Unfortunately, for all the AA rage, no one in AA, really gives a fuck if you hate AA and never want to come back or never go. We are going on with our lives; ethier practicing a 12 step program designed to build a relationship with a higher power/GOD, take a real hard look at ourselves (resentments, fears, sex relationships) and see the selfish, dishonest self seeking, fearful and inconsiderate person we really are and what were the triggering events (threat to ambition, finances, pride, personal relations, etc) not the ultimate victim of life so many of us pretended to be, make attempts to clean up the mess we have made of our own lives and the hurt and havoc we have created in the lives of others, utilize prayer and meditation to continue to work on the lesss delightful aspects of ourselves, change profoundly as a result of genuinely committing ourselves to a new way of living life and then be available to help someone else do the same; OR using AA meetings as a place to be crazy, be needy, make some sober friends, get laid, bump our gums and run our damn mouths, whine incessantly, stamp our feet an cry,take hostages, be emotional vampires, distance ourselves and refuse to engage “with those people in the meetings”, etc. The truth of this is most people in AA do both things at different times and simultaneously throughout their AA recovery “process”. We are not saints. Sorry to hear some have been misled to believe otherwise.

    The doors work both ways. Heck, when I hear a bunch of stupidness in a meeting, I have choices – I can leave the meeting, I can stay, sit and stew in the meeting or I can open my mouth and say something in the meeting (not after the meeting, not a week later, not on orange papers,leaving AA or stinking thinking website message boards) or I can throw the baby out with the bathwater an leave AA..

    AA, for me is one alcoholic talking to another alcoholic (not pot smoker, not a crackhead, not a non alcoholic schizophrenic or just random, lonely maladjusted to life person or homeless person looking for a place to crash) and sharing that recovery from active alcoholism is possible and has been achieved by myself and others by surrendering some long held beliefs and practicing the 12 steps.

    Is that the only way to get sober -NO! It’s the AA way to get sober. Not your way, his way, SOS’ way, SMART Recovery’s way – AA’s way.

  180. R. Felt says:

    Entertaining article and I must agree with it all. The only slip up is the medical community does consider it a disease. Realistically though this is of the most misunderstood and rolling definitions of medicine out there. It’ll change yet again with the next DSM and as generations of doctors come and go.

    Speaking of doctors, not a single one I’ve ever met has even remotely the same protocol with deal with drugs and especially alcohol. And to think in the 21st some still even suggest a religious solution to what is supposed to be a medical problem is absurd. What of the disease would this ever be suggested for??

    Even for supposed detox regimes I’ve been prescribed 20x5mg diazepam with specific taper instructions, 12x5mg diazepam with a different set of taper, 60x10mg diazepam to take 3 times a day as needed, 20x1mg lorazepam twice a day, etc.

    And yet I’ve quit drinking for weeks and had minimal to no withdrawal symptoms (we’re talking after a litre of vodka’s worth of alcohol a day). Other times I have had withdrawal, or so it would seem. They are also the cumulative symptoms of what I find to be a panic attack, dehydration, malnutrition, sleep deprivation, and the stress of people trying to force you.

    That’s where AA is a useless load of shit. You have people pressuring you and this ‘fellowship’ thing is too much of an obligation to other people about something that is personal.

    Also I can’t stand the lying in AA. I specifically asked when I went ‘what about the religion’ and they said it wasn’t….right that’s why we are in a church basement, there’s prayers, holding hand circles, and like 25 references to god on every page of the big book.

    AA is not harmless. If you read the horror stories, you’ll see it can rip apart families and relationships practically the same as alcohol. I have an uncle who went religious nuts who did exactly that. It becomes more important than real people to those who cling to it like a drug.

    It is a cult. Cults try to break you down and tell you you’re powerless first thing. Surprise surprise. And if that’s not what they’re doing, what are they? In the end you have to take the power over alcohol anyway.

    Oh yeah I had just down my last glass of wine before going and was hammered but they game me a creepy illuminati 24 hours sober chip without asking anyway.

  181. Anon says:

    I went to about a dozen AA meetings after getting a DUI and Drunk and Disordely. The same useless banter on the cigarette breaks about everyone relishing in their “good old days” made me nauseous. Half of these people don’t even know how to take control of their own lives let alone realize they are being absolutely brainwashed. And the Big Book please don’t get me started on how ridiculous and baseless it was when I read even just a paragraph from it. Every meeting I attended was depressive, listless, and just jargon. AA is a crock of absolute bullshit. I really like HAMS better whereas they strive for moderation or abstitense based on the person.

  182. rob says:

    reading your post, one thing struck me. You were far too kind and polite to AA. They need to be called out for what they are. AA is promoted ahead of actual medical research and treatment, as a direct result millions of people die. Try going to a doctor and asking for help with drinking. The vast majority of the time they will tell you to go to AA.

    The beginning of a solution is simple…

    No state funding for AA. Ban AA from prisons. Ban courts from ordering people to AA. Ban tax exempt organizations (like churches) from hosting AA meetings, or they lose their tax exempt status. Any doctor or nurse who recommends AA, immediately loses their ability to practice and is charged with attempted murder. Anyone who tries to organize a meeting… automatic premeditated murder charge.

    If that’s not enough to crush AA, then more punitive legal measures could be adopted as necessary.

  183. bud michaels says:

    I agree with Rob’s post, i.e that they need to be “called out” for what they do and are! I was in treatment twice, in a hospital setting that let these moron’s in, unscreened, un-coached in protocol, and two or three of them beat up on me with their bullshit confrontational style of in-your-face. They don’t know “how lucky they are,” really. I am a veteran that suffers from service related serious stressors (PTSD)/mental illness, I don’t “do well” with confrontations, especially when I am being treated by a hospital for having a disease. Have you ever heard of a heart patient, or, a cancer patient, being treated by hostile/aggressive, in their face, “treatment?” Only by my extreme practice of restraint and the grace of God, did I not call these moron’s out and punch their lights out! I don’t put pain onto other people, why should it be allowed to put onto me, with impunity of the moron(s) putting it there? I think that if enough people file complaints, to various bureaus and even take legal action, that this kind of nonsense will eventually end.

  184. Bjv says:

    AA is for anyone who prefers to give up on themselves and shift all responsibility in their lives by giving up their personal freedoms.
    Read the first “Tradition”. It’s all about AA, not the individual. It’s all about a “Group conscience”, not independent thinking. It’s all about a shifting
    focus off personal well being to group well being by finding the god of the “members”. They say “…if you want what we have…”, but they have nothing but empty and meaningless cheap theater rhetoric as they fingerprint their way to a perverted inner world of sanctimonious self-affirmation at the expense of innocent people being cast as “diseased” and “insane” unless they repent.
    It’s “a simple program”: don’t drink, come to meetings, read our hogwash written (allegedly inspired by god) by a guy dropping LSD, do whatever we say and put money in the collection basket. Many thoughtful people made their program simpler: don’t drink and take your personal freedom back.

  185. JC says:

    The article is a little over the top, but some of the comments are proving her point. Some even saying that she isn’t an alcoholic because she could stop drinking without AA. Proving her point. AA is not the only way to get sober. AA is 1 of several ways. I hung out in meetings for months struggling with the concepts and was told that I would drink if I left. I was drinking while I was going. Got a week, a month, a couple months here and there, but it never stuck. Wasn’t until I found the way that worked for me that I stopped completely and was content with myself sober. There is one undeniable truth in the article. AA has such a hold in society with the recovery industry that it has fooled itself into thinking it is the only way. Not all, but the majority of the members believe and tell “newcomers” that AA is the only way to stay sober and if someone is able to stay sober without AA that they are “miserable prick dry drunks”. Very dangerous rhetoric. So do the AA thing if it works for you. But please…. stop telling people it is the only way. You quite possibly could be signing a desperate person’s death certificate.

  186. Deb says:

    Struggled with alcohol while coping with depression about 20 years ago. Went into outpatient treatment that required attendance at AA meetings. Once my depression resolved, I realized what I had always suspected. I had been abusing alcohol but I wasn’t an alcoholic. Boy, did all my AA “friends” ditch me after that. All the I love yous turned into we don’t even know yous.

  187. psychomojo says:

    That was entertaining. I am still laughing…

  188. Mike says:

    well I have never… I am utterly disgusted.

  189. Footloose says:

    I had the wisdom to cut contact with AA and all AA associations 4 years ago. I remain sober (and happy, I might add) to this day. The dull endless story thumping, charged with slogans and chants just did not work for me. I am an evolving entity and saw no point in immersing myself in something that prides itself on its unwillingness to change. Some say if it works, why change it? As I understand it, change is inevitable and a necessary element of the human condition. Standing still in any area of my life seems lame at best but potentially harmful at its worst. I encourage newcomers to weigh alternatives when seeking support. There are healthy ways to get sober other than the AA way.

  190. walkingtortilla says:

    The blogger, besides being cruel and unnecessarily mocking (ego problems?) has obviously never been an alcoholic and has really no business writing about the tragedy of hardcore alcoholism.
    To take things people said or did nearly 90 years ago is equally absurd. But in this age of ‘hate all you don’t agree with, show sympathy for none, and above all, never love’ it’s just more drivel.
    Nine years sober, I’m sick of AA too. I get it. I know the book, I know the people. But I’m tired of the dogma, of hearing the same thing year after year, of hearing people living their lives in terms of AA instead of in terms of sobriety. I’m also tired of people of attacking AA people as religious people. The same trend of atheism runs through AA as through everything else in this day and age. I’m tired of the anti-intellectuals, wherever they’re from. All I see are a bunch of insecure, scared people using greed and ego as their fix.
    Still, I never ever want to drink again. And yes, whoever wrote this, a drink will do me in. I know that from experience and experience. Recovering from coke, would you do ‘just a line’ to show you can handle it now? What is the harm in never drinking? I’d like to find more intelligent, sober people in this world. People who aren’t trying to sell me something. At least AA doesn’t do that.

  191. psychomojo says:

    This was very entertaining. Most will never get it and continue to use terminology that has no real truth to the phenomenon. Thank you for this! I refer to it when necessary!

  192. Dime Bag says:

    AA is bullshit.
    I’ve been to a few meetings, and they very often pull out copies of something called ‘The Grapevine’. All the stories contained in the readings are about those that can’t be a functional drunk and have fun with it.
    Yes! No driving drunk, no priming oneself for social functions, no getting arrested by the cops. The Grapevine has zero stories about having fun, being intelligent, and getting away with it.

    Why don’t the AA people ever talk about very successful, clever, and prosperous drunks?
    They exist in great numbers. It’s true. Higher power or not.

    Besides, if you take the hard road, you get a posthumous Darwin Award. Why the hell not?

  193. Bv says:

    I’ve been coerced into AA and denied any options to have other programs as substitutes. I have been to over 600 “meetings”. AA would be best off if it considered itself a peer support group, and left it at that. But, it doesn’t.
    AA’s slogan ought to be: “if you can’t quit drinking, we can’t help”….because it works! (Only) if YOU work it. Meetings vary from being a coven of witches to cheap public park theater. I have wasted my time for over 4 years listening to the most asinine, irrational, sanctimonious and self grandiose, verifiably omnidirectional incoherent nonsense that, I can barely tolerate it any longer. Early on in my AA “experience” I asked enough real simple questions that I was quickly labeled as a denier and even told I was not welcome at their meeting for future consideration. I could write a book of comedy from AA dialogues I’ve had in the ‘program’. And, it’s great hidden meanings and claptrap will ONLY be understood by those who “really try” to get “what they’ve got”.

    Personally, I don’t want any of this colorful cultish behavior stranding my mind on the side of the intellect highway. A mind is a terrible thing to waste.

  194. George MacDonald says:

    I guess you hated being court ordered to go eh? next time perhaps reconsider driving drunk… the problem with assholes like you is when you ‘take yourself out’ drunk driving you normally tend to take innocent sober people out with you.

  195. 12stepstostupidity says:

    AA is for morons, just like believing in God, flat earth, and other such bullshit. Why bother arging with idiots who can’t tell the difference between cause and correlation or find their ass with both hands and amirror. It is a waste of time.

  196. Bart says:

    I’ve been going to AA for five years and a majority of the people are cool and laid back. The old timers, the big book thumpers, and anyone who claims to have all the answers I stay away from . There are some real wackos in AA though

  197. You would LOVE my website! 12stepcultreligionexposed.wordpress.com

  198. Peggy says:

    I have seen AA “work” (in the sense of improving a persons life) for people that were hardcore drinkers. Down and out, in prisons, or on the street, or completelu wrecked from IV drug use, robbing houses… heavy duty drunks and drug addicts. It is people that were hospitalized with physical dependency to booze. Those are the ones AA “works” the best for. A lot of it is just switching their environment from bars, over to sober club houses.

    It works less for people with just a DUI, or they had some relationship problems and lost love due to their drinking, or had job loss from drinking, or other consequences… these are moderately messed up drinkers. These types may go through all the motions of the program, get a sponsor, chair meetings, and be active in AA, but they sort of fake any results. They fake a lot of it and put on a show for themselves and others.

    The ones that are high bottom drunks who never really lost too much they just decided it was time to quit and hang around with a different crowd. They fit in with the middle group too. They probably do not really need AA much after they are alcohol free for an extended period of time, but their social network is just stuck in the rooms.

  199. Peggy says:

    I also want to add that parts of the AA big book were created and edited while the writer(s) were on LSD. Mmmkay?

    The entire big book and the 12 step book all sound the same. There are no discerable “Chapters” at all. It all sounds the same just different combonations of words. The big book is all just one big long document that drones on and on, aimlessly, and then the document was re-organized, edited and polished by people that had consumed LSD. You can see in the text how it sparkles like somebody was microdosing and they thought that would be left unnoticed.

    The big book is written like a text book but it has no index. Any interpretation is up to a bunch of self appointed AA meeting gurus. The big book was probably only partially written by Bill Wilson and the rest was done by a ghost writer or two. I say that because I heard the first edition of the big book was written like a grade schooler did it. It was a total mess of a document written by Bill W. then later came some microdosing sessions and a ghost writer or two.

    The 12 and 12 book text is indiscernable with the big book. It is just more droning on and on. I would say that if you have read all the books and have attended a thousand book study meetings, and I read you a full page from the big book or the 12 and 12, you would likely have zero clue which chapter or step or tradition that one page came from, because it all sounds the same.

    It is at times very entertaining text in a sick way, but it is all undoubtably for indoctinating members.

  200. Vinnie says:

    AA is for faggots.

  201. David Ross says:

    AA is for morons. The only thing a fool has a hard time believing is the truth. Bill Wilson did lsd and doubled down on his bullshit.(I love lsd for its mind expanding power but apparently you can’t expand something that doesn’t exist ie, Bill Wilson’s “brain”Powerlessness? Bullshit. Alcoholism or addiction is a disease or allergy? Bullshit. The idiotic irrational concept of being a “dry drunk”? Bullshit. Higher power? Bullshit. The only way to get sober? Bullshit. Making a past problematic behaviour your central identity? Unhealthy. Not knowing the difference between cause and correlation? Idiotic. Not taking responsibility for your own actions, good or bad? Childish and contemptible. AA is bad pseudoscience from a religious moron from the 1930’s. Bill Wilson was a 13th stepping sexual predator who used his position in AA to take advantage of women in the “program”. He would have been charged and imprisoned for his actions in today’s world. He is also a moron, just read the Big Book and it’s obvious.(unless you are a moron too). If I told you to ram a carrot up your ass, and ride a unicycle while juggling kittens, and not drink, and you followed my program on a daily basis, you too would stay sober. It works if you work it.

  202. andrew mcknight says:

    I agree essentially with the individual who wrote this article,
    ; didn’t bother to read the reactions. Essentially, she is spot on! AA is largely filled with severe assholes who will definitely leave your mind more fucked up than it was by booze. This is a sad fact, if it was not true, I would not take the time to say it. She is correct and true, as far as the essence of her rant goes: AA is mostly comprised of self absorbed, negative, neurotic shitheads who have been sober since the redwoods sprouted; they will leave your mind conflicted and angry–JUST LIKE THEY ARE. get..get…get away, their has to be a better way..their has to…get away….

  203. andrew mcknight says:

    She is correct. Get away from AA and alcohol if your psyche is intact enough. Your instincts are correct; it is a room full of babbling demons that will make you a babbling demon–unless, YOU GET THE FUCK OUT OF THERE AND NEVER LOOK BACK

  204. andrew mcknight says:

    QUISLING, the cocksuckers turn you into a family quisling…..if you let them….

  205. Carl Jung says:

    AA didn’t make, Kyria Abrahams, angry. She’s just an angry person looking for anything to take it out on. A lot of fun, right. If I ever meet her Ill be happy to buy here a drink! Cheers


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